Episode 103

Witch

In Buffy the Vampire Slayer season one, episode three, “Witch,” Buffy is trying to hold onto cheerleading - a pre-Slayer piece of her life she loved. At tryouts, cheerleaders begin dropping like flies - Buffy herself is targeted! - and the Scoobies suspect a powerful witch is behind the attacks. The gang rallies to get everybody back in their right bodies just in time and pig out on brownies. We learn that some people may want you to be different - like different things - and you may not, and that’s great!

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Transcript
Intro Music:

[Intro Music]

Allie & Nick:

Welcome, to Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Intro Music:

[Intro Music]

Allie Press:

All right.

Allie Press:

Hello!

Nick Mercer:

Hello.

Allie Press:

My name is Allie.

Nick Mercer:

And I'm Nick.

Allie Press:

And welcome to episode three of Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Allie Press:

We're so glad you are here.

Nick Mercer:

In Tabula Rasa, B!tches you'll listen.

Nick Mercer:

As two decades-long friends jump back into the world of Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Nick Mercer:

and relive the show that brought them close together and taught them so many

Nick Mercer:

of the values they still cherish today.

Nick Mercer:

And side note for our friends, we will be discussing this episode spoilers and all.

Nick Mercer:

If you haven't watched and don't want to hear spoilers, hit the pause button,

Nick Mercer:

go do your watching, and come on back.

Nick Mercer:

We can't wait for you to rejoin us.

Allie Press:

Yes, exactly.

Allie Press:

And each episode of Tabula Rasa, B!tches, we'll dive into an episode of

Allie Press:

Buffy the Vampire Slayer and discuss the lessons that can be learned from

Allie Press:

our favorite Sunnydale warriors and the supernatural creatures they use their

Allie Press:

talents and friendship to overcome.

Allie Press:

Today we'll be discussing season one, episode three, "Witch."

Allie Press:

Nicholas, would you like to give us a summary?

Nick Mercer:

I would be thrilled to give you a summary.

Nick Mercer:

So, the summary is shamelessly stolen from my friends over at Buffyverse Wiki because

Nick Mercer:

they are brilliant and wrote a brilliant summary and I would like to borrow it.

Nick Mercer:

So, when students start dropping out of cheerleading tryouts by

Nick Mercer:

spontaneously combusting, going blind, and losing the power of

Nick Mercer:

speech, Buffy and her posse suspect a powerful witch is in their midst.

Nick Mercer:

Buffy herself soon becomes the target of a deadly spell as they

Nick Mercer:

discover the witch's true identity.

Nick Mercer:

Meanwhile, Xander finally musters up the nerve to ask Buffy out on a date, but in

Nick Mercer:

the throws of a witch's spell, Buffy's response isn't exactly as he'd hoped.

Allie Press:

That is a fantastic summary.

Allie Press:

Um, although, does he ask her out or does he ridiculously

Allie Press:

beat around the bush and...

Allie Press:

yeah.

Allie Press:

He did basically what I did in high school, which was like, I'm just gonna

Allie Press:

shower them with attention and hopefully they'll understand what I'm talking about.

Nick Mercer:

Classic, a classic mistake from our high school selves.

Allie Press:

It's a high school move.

Allie Press:

It is a hundred percent accurate high schooler move.

Allie Press:

Is it effective?

Allie Press:

No.

Allie Press:

But is it true to the character?

Allie Press:

Absolutely.

Allie Press:

So I will say just to start off, this is one of my all-time

Allie Press:

favorite Buffy episodes.

Nick Mercer:

Really?

Nick Mercer:

I didn't know that.

Allie Press:

It is!

Allie Press:

Um, I don't even know, I could, I'm not even sure I could put my finger on it.

Allie Press:

It's just, there's something so classic about it.

Allie Press:

And it's a little bit different because it's a witch instead of a vampire that's,

Allie Press:

you know, the main bad for the episode.

Allie Press:

And it's just got some classic moments and they're really starting to gel as a team.

Allie Press:

I don't know, I don't know.

Allie Press:

There's just something I really love about it.

Nick Mercer:

It is, uh, definitely, I, I think it's the first time

Nick Mercer:

we see a non-vampire baddie.

Nick Mercer:

So it's in sense.

Allie Press:

Absolutely.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Um, and I mean, it's, in the context of things, it's only episode three.

Allie Press:

So that is pretty early to, um, introduce other things.

Allie Press:

But this is the first, it seems like the first non vampire

Allie Press:

thing that Buffy has fought.

Nick Mercer:

It's cool that it takes place mainly at school too, the, see the worlds

Nick Mercer:

kind of, I mean, the first episode we saw that, cause the dude got killed at school

Nick Mercer:

or whatever, but this is, you know, the, the supernatural forces are affecting

Nick Mercer:

the other students, which is neat see.

Allie Press:

Yeah, and it is, and it is all going down at school, whereas

Allie Press:

like the guy was killed after school.

Allie Press:

And the vampires were at The Bronze.

Allie Press:

Or, you know, so they were like talking about stuff, but the action and fighting

Allie Press:

and stuff was happening outside of school.

Allie Press:

Whereas yeah, you know, the hands on fire happens in the middle of the

Allie Press:

school gym in front of everybody.

Allie Press:

So, pretty, pretty quickly becoming a little difficult

Allie Press:

for the student body to ignore.

Allie Press:

Although, obviously we'll, we'll see that they do for the most part.

Allie Press:

Cause what else are you going to do?

Nick Mercer:

Um, I will say I loved, right at the start of the episode, I was

Nick Mercer:

cheering for Buffy as she was sharing that she was going to be a cheerleader.

Nick Mercer:

Oh, I didn't even plan that.

Nick Mercer:

That was good, Nick.

Nick Mercer:

I love how unapologetic she is about trying for the cheerleading squad.

Nick Mercer:

Giles no, you can't.

Nick Mercer:

No, no, no.

Nick Mercer:

But uh, she says, "And you'll stop me how?"

Allie Press:

"And you'll be stopping me how?"

Allie Press:

Yes, I do, and I do love that moment and I do love the bait and switch of like, you

Allie Press:

know, we start just hearing Giles, like, [chuckle] "Submitting yourself to this...

Allie Press:

cult?"

Allie Press:

And then Buffy just like, "What, you don't like the color?"

Allie Press:

[Nick laughing] I love that.

Allie Press:

And it is, and it is a little sad.

Allie Press:

I think this whole, kind of this whole episode and this whole, her effort to join

Allie Press:

the cheerleading squad is sort of her last ditch effort to hold onto her old life.

Nick Mercer:

Mm.

Allie Press:

Um, cause cheerleading was a big part of her, her school last time.

Allie Press:

We'll hear later her mom say, you know, "The trouble started just

Allie Press:

after you stopped cheerleading, so I'm glad you're taking it up again."

Allie Press:

So it's really just her last, last grip on trying to be normal.

Allie Press:

And, of course, her job as the Slayer getting in the way

Allie Press:

and making that impossible.

Nick Mercer:

Of course, somebody spontaneously combusts right

Nick Mercer:

as she's trying to engage with it for the first time.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I have to say, since you noted it in a previous episode, Allie,

Nick Mercer:

I've been paying more attention to people's clothes, and I want that

Nick Mercer:

button down that Xander is wearing.

Nick Mercer:

Xander, you were right, Xander has some nice style.

Allie Press:

He has some fun stuff.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

And I don't know if the fact that nineties clothing is resonating

Nick Mercer:

with, I don't know quite what that means?

Nick Mercer:

But I'm not going to think too much about it.

Nick Mercer:

And I'm just gonna say it - I like it.

Allie Press:

It's okay.

Allie Press:

The nineties, the are back.

Allie Press:

You're allowed to like it.

Nick Mercer:

Cool.

Nick Mercer:

Great.

Allie Press:

Um, speaking of clothing, I think it's really funny that, so they're

Allie Press:

at the cheer tryouts and, and Willow's this, and they're like, "Oh, you were

Allie Press:

pretending that scan, seeing scantily clad women in revealing postures was

Allie Press:

somehow a reflection of school spirit."

Allie Press:

Or something like that.

Allie Press:

And in looking around and it's like scantily clad?

Allie Press:

Really?

Allie Press:

It's like biker shorts and sports bras.

Allie Press:

It's really funny that that's what passed for, for scantily clad.

Allie Press:

It's like, oh, oh, whoa.

Allie Press:

Look at all these belly buttons!

Allie Press:

Oh, clutching my pearls!

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

It doesn't even register in today's modern

Allie Press:

context of like scantily clad.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, this is not, yeah, this is not scandalous right now.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I wanted your feedback, Allie, as a former high school cheerleader yourself.

Allie Press:

Mhm.

Nick Mercer:

Give me your perspective on the routines that we see in this episode.

Allie Press:

Well, as a matter of fact, my very next comment in my notes is

Allie Press:

"Her dance moves don't match the music!"

Allie Press:

Um, when Amber, who they're talking about like, "Oh, what does

Allie Press:

she think she is, a Laker Girl?"

Allie Press:

And oh, she turned them down.

Allie Press:

Like, her dance moves don't match the music.

Allie Press:

So that was frustrating.

Allie Press:

I mean, yes she is, she's clearly-

Nick Mercer:

You're not impressed.

Allie Press:

She's clearly very talented and like, you know, her high kicks and

Allie Press:

she's got rhythm and, and I, this could totally be one of those production things

Allie Press:

where they asked her to put together a few moves and then they put music

Allie Press:

together later or something like that.

Allie Press:

It could totally be one of those things.

Allie Press:

But watching it, I was definitely like, mmmm, okay.

Allie Press:

Okay.

Allie Press:

I will say, um, I do love their classic, sort of old-fashioned cheer

Allie Press:

uniforms, the sweater with the skirt.

Allie Press:

I think it's so classy.

Allie Press:

It's so cute.

Allie Press:

Um, obviously very different than a lot of the cheer uniforms we see today.

Allie Press:

Definitely more modest.

Allie Press:

Again, talking about old standards of what scantily clad was.

Allie Press:

But I thought the routines were good, especially the ones we see

Allie Press:

later with the poms and stuff.

Allie Press:

I thought those were very cute and very cheer.

Allie Press:

I mean, obviously, the Sunnydale cheerleaders are not going to,

Allie Press:

you know, win any competitions.

Allie Press:

Their stunting is very minimal.

Allie Press:

But you know, still, still good.

Allie Press:

And they could definitely yell and they were engaged with the crowd.

Allie Press:

So I thought that was all really good.

Allie Press:

Um, my next note, though, when Amber's hands light on fire, "Does

Allie Press:

no one know 'stop, drop, and roll'?"

Allie Press:

I see this all the time in movies and TV.

Allie Press:

And for us growing up, it was in like infomercials or whatever.

Allie Press:

I feel like "stop, drop and roll" was smashed in our faces and I never see

Allie Press:

it used, like, I don't understand.

Nick Mercer:

I wrote that, um, I am so glad that Buffy was there

Nick Mercer:

because she is the only one moving

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: Yes!

- Nick Mercer:

any sort of haste.

Allie Press:

Yep.

Allie Press:

Everyone else froze.

Allie Press:

And that is a real thing.

Allie Press:

In times of trauma or scary stuff like freezing is a thing.

Allie Press:

Um, my dad saved one of my brother's friend's lives when he was choking

Allie Press:

on some pasta, being a stupid teenage boy, getting a whole mouthful and

Allie Press:

like not really chewing, and a room full of Boy Scouts totally, several

Allie Press:

of them Eagle Scouts, totally froze.

Nick Mercer:

Boy Scouts, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Presumably, yeah, yeah.

Allie Press:

So yeah, exactly.

Allie Press:

Presumably like trained in first aid and like that kind of thing, all

Allie Press:

should, they all should theoretically know the Heimlich maneuver.

Allie Press:

And my dad had to, had to rush in and perform the Heimlich maneuver.

Nick Mercer:

Bruce Press, good job!

Allie Press:

I know, I know he's hero.

Allie Press:

He's a hero.

Allie Press:

Wouldn't that, woof, that would have been a traumatic childhood

Allie Press:

thing, seeing your, your friend choke to death in your living room.

Nick Mercer:

Choke to death on, on pasta too.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I, I wrote that, um, in addition to being glad because Buffy is moving with a

Nick Mercer:

lot of haste, there is, right at the end, she is hugging Amber saying, "It's okay.

Nick Mercer:

It's okay.

Nick Mercer:

Everything's going to be okay."

Nick Mercer:

And I just need Buffy in my day-to-day life just for that.

Allie Press:

Just for that.

Nick Mercer:

There are so many times a day, yeah, yeah, where I'm

Nick Mercer:

making a big deal about something and if she could just say-

Allie Press:

Just rub my shoulder.

Nick Mercer:

Right, right.

Allie Press:

Or, or envelop me with a big blanket like that.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

yeah.

Nick Mercer:

I'll take a big blanket too, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

That sounds good.

Nick Mercer:

I could always use a big blanket.

Allie Press:

I love that.

Allie Press:

I would like that.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I have a note here.

Nick Mercer:

I'm sorry to, um, I think you were about to say something, but I have to

Nick Mercer:

interrupt with this because this is good.

Allie Press:

You good.

Nick Mercer:

I am going to - Dear listeners, be on the lookout for our

Nick Mercer:

social media because I'm going to post a screenshot, speaking of Allie in

Nick Mercer:

her cheerleader days, there was time, I don't know the context for this.

Nick Mercer:

I don't remember the context now.

Nick Mercer:

Do you remember that time you wrote on my Facebook wall, Allie?

Allie Press:

Yes, I do.

Allie Press:

And I, [Nick cackling] I cringe every time it comes up in my

Allie Press:

Facebook rewind, thing, whatever.

Allie Press:

Or it used to come up in my, uh...

Allie Press:

what was that app that I deleted because I

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Timehop.

Allie Press:

Timehop!

Allie Press:

That's what it was.

Allie Press:

I deleted it cause then I, cause I broke up with my ex and I was like, I don't

Allie Press:

need to be reminded of this BS, Timehop.

Allie Press:

Thank you very much.

Nick Mercer:

I had Timehop.

Nick Mercer:

I checked it religiously every day for two years.

Nick Mercer:

Two years.

Nick Mercer:

It had the counter, and then there was, and then it messed up.

Nick Mercer:

I did not miss a day, but it said that I missed today and it recounted

Nick Mercer:

my account all the way back to one.

Nick Mercer:

And I hit them up on Twitter and they didn't fix it.

Nick Mercer:

So I then deleted it.

Allie Press:

protest.

Nick Mercer:

But....

Allie Press:

So, all right, so go, go ahead.

Allie Press:

Read the quote.

Allie Press:

What did I write on your wall?

Nick Mercer:

Well, so I, I tried to find it so I could do

Nick Mercer:

justice to the exact phrasing.

Nick Mercer:

It had the word "bitch" in it, and I, I texted you a picture of it before.

Nick Mercer:

And I went back into our text messages and I searched for "bitch," and I

Nick Mercer:

scrolled through years of texts, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

Do you know how often you

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: Well, if you sent me a

Nick Mercer:

up in your search of, of words.

Nick Mercer:

You would have to look at our pictures, our shared media.

Nick Mercer:

No, I, I sent it to you at one point just with the caption "Bitch."

Allie Press:

Oh, okay.

Nick Mercer:

And then I tried to go through just our pictures, too, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

Do you know how many pictures we send each other back and forth?

Allie Press:

It's a lot.

Nick Mercer:

It's a lot!

Allie Press:

Happens, that happens when you're best friends.

Nick Mercer:

Um

Allie Press:

Let me see.

Allie Press:

I'm looking, I'm looking through mine now.

Allie Press:

Seeing if I can find a screenshot of...

Allie Press:

[Snort] M my dog is not happy with me.

Allie Press:

Sorry, bitch.

Allie Press:

Speaking of bitches.

Nick Mercer:

Sammy is here, too.

Allie Press:

Of course, I find one of my favorite pictures.

Allie Press:

It's these two, like Shakespeare-looking dudes.

Allie Press:

Um, so I have this one picture that I, I constantly keep on my phone

Allie Press:

cause it never ceases to amuse me.

Allie Press:

So it's one guy and he's like, "What if the earth orbits the sun?"

Allie Press:

And this other guy's like, " What if your wife orbits my dick?"

Allie Press:

[Snickering] It's just like every time I see that fucking picture, it

Allie Press:

just, it amuses me every single time.

Allie Press:

Okay.

Allie Press:

Well, the quote, it was something like-

Nick Mercer:

"I'm a cheerleader.

Nick Mercer:

I look down on people like you now."

Allie Press:

Yes, exactly.

Allie Press:

Exactly.

Allie Press:

I assume it was in response to something sassy you said.

Allie Press:

I guarantee it was not unsolicited.

Nick Mercer:

Well, I was going to say, I bet I deserved it.

Nick Mercer:

And then I bet I deceptively edited out the context for

Nick Mercer:

it when I reminded you of it.

Nick Mercer:

But that's just who we are.

Nick Mercer:

I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

I'll find it.

Nick Mercer:

It's good.

Allie Press:

No, and it is, and it's especially funny because I

Allie Press:

was, I was a cheerleader for a year.

Allie Press:

And what did I do after cheerleading?

Allie Press:

Marching band.

Allie Press:

I was the leader of the geeks.

Allie Press:

So, clearly, I did not have the social ranking to make such a comment.

Allie Press:

And of course, if you did not know our history, you'd be like what the?

Allie Press:

Who talks to other people like that?

Allie Press:

[Nick chuckling] You'd be horrified, but for us, it's hysterical.

Nick Mercer:

Oh, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

And completely in line with how we communicate.

Nick Mercer:

Cussing at each other is a love language.

Allie Press:

It's a love language for sure.

Nick Mercer:

It is.

Allie Press:

Okay.

Allie Press:

Um, my dog is getting belligerent, so let me go let her out before

Allie Press:

she like pees on my rug in protest.

Allie Press:

One sec.

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah, we can't have.

Allie Press:

Okay.

Allie Press:

And I'm back.

Nick Mercer:

Okay.

Nick Mercer:

Where were we?

Nick Mercer:

I will make this comment every episode, the Buffy theme song

Nick Mercer:

is timeless and incredible.

Allie Press:

It's lit.

Allie Press:

It's excellent.

Allie Press:

It will never get old.

Allie Press:

Um, so my next thing is, so they're gathered in the library, the Scooby

Allie Press:

gang, discussing what's going.

Allie Press:

And I love Giles getting so excited about the prospect of a

Allie Press:

witch or something non vampirey.

Allie Press:

And they all look at him and he goes, "Pardon me for

Allie Press:

finding the glass half full."

Nick Mercer:

[Laughing] "That's the thrill of living on the Hellmouth.

Nick Mercer:

a veritable cornucopia of fiends and devils and ghouls to engage."

Nick Mercer:

Good for you, Giles.

Allie Press:

Exactly.

Allie Press:

Yeah, you know, enjoy your job.

Allie Press:

You have to, you know, you have to find enjoyment where you can.

Allie Press:

That scene is chock-full of excellent quotes.

Allie Press:

It's another one of my favorite Xander lines, um, "I laugh in the face of danger.

Allie Press:

Then I hide until it goes away."

Nick Mercer:

I like Willow's coining them as "the Slayerettes."

Allie Press:

Mhm, mhm.

Nick Mercer:

Iconic.

Allie Press:

Yes, that's very classic.

Allie Press:

And we move into the next scene with, uh, Buffy getting home.

Allie Press:

She's talking with Joyce.

Allie Press:

I definitely did not get her "Jeepers" at the fertility statue when I was young.

Allie Press:

I, I don't, maybe, maybe I thought, maybe I thought it was boobs or assumed

Allie Press:

it was boobs or something like that.

Allie Press:

And I was like, oh yeah, yeah.

Allie Press:

Now I'm like, oh no, that's a penis.

Allie Press:

That's a giant, it's a giant penis.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

that's a dong.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Just a big old dong.

Nick Mercer:

I, um, I don't like this scene.

Nick Mercer:

I like that we revisit it.

Nick Mercer:

That Joyce revisits the mistakes she makes in it.

Allie Press:

I love it.

Allie Press:

I have a note about that later.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, but as I was, as I was watching, taking notes and

Nick Mercer:

kind of, I guess, forgot that, that we do revisit it later.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I w, I was just feeling like, like, man, this theme of parents trying to live

Nick Mercer:

out their glory days through their kids.

Allie Press:

And just parental pressure.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Absolutely.

Allie Press:

And I, great quotes of "Your platitudes are good for all occasions."

Allie Press:

And "I'm not in trouble."

Allie Press:

"No, not yet."

Allie Press:

And then she's like, no, I, that's not what I meant.

Allie Press:

And as I, as a woman in her, her late twenties, contemplating, you know, I can't

Allie Press:

actually put a time a, a timeframe on it, but, you know, contemplating having kids.

Allie Press:

Now, I'm just like, so on the parent's side, cause like, I

Allie Press:

can't even imagine trying to deal with some of these situations.

Allie Press:

So I'm like, she's, I'm sure she was trying the best she could.

Allie Press:

I'm sure she was trying to find the best wording.

Allie Press:

But I also totally see Buffy's side of like, I don't, I

Allie Press:

don't know what else I can do.

Allie Press:

I'm not in trouble.

Allie Press:

And like, you don't even know all the stuff that I have to deal with.

Allie Press:

I'm sorry if my history test is not top of, top of my list of priorities.

Nick Mercer:

I think this is definitely one of those where as I've gotten

Nick Mercer:

older and watched it, I more see, I'm still not thrilled with how she

Nick Mercer:

engaged here, but I more see, like I, I do relate more to having a million

Nick Mercer:

things, juggling a million things, trying to maintain a house and job.

Nick Mercer:

And it's the first big project at the, your work.

Nick Mercer:

And, you know.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Well, and, and, I can, that, that whole parental comparison of, you know,

Allie Press:

maybe you prefer your friend's parents.

Allie Press:

Or you wish your parents were more like other parents.

Allie Press:

You know, when she mentions that "Yeah, Amy trains with her mom,

Allie Press:

you know, like six hours a day."

Allie Press:

And Joyce just going, "Sounds like her mom doesn't have a lot to do."

Allie Press:

Oh, and I can so see, I can so picture that situation.

Allie Press:

And I, I was lucky enough to have my parents very involved in my life.

Allie Press:

But I know part of that, especially my mom, came from, my mom was one of five.

Allie Press:

She did not have individual time with her parents.

Allie Press:

So my mom made a concerted effort, because that's something she lacked, to

Allie Press:

be involved in, you know, chaperoning field trips and that kind of thing.

Allie Press:

So I can absolutely see that reverse.

Allie Press:

Or, I hear about so many, so many of my friends who are either artists or they're

Allie Press:

LGBT, and they're just not accepted for whatever reason by their parents.

Allie Press:

And so they have to find surrogate parents.

Allie Press:

And that's, that's a goal of mine as a parent.

Allie Press:

I want to be, I want to be that parent to my kids' friends who,

Allie Press:

if they are lacking at home, I can step in and do that kind of thing.

Allie Press:

Or just be a second mom.

Allie Press:

I have a bunch of second moms in best friends' parents.

Allie Press:

And I, I love that.

Allie Press:

Cause sometimes that whole, like #parentsjustdontunderstand.

Allie Press:

Or it's easier to hear from somebody when it's not your parent.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, for sure.

Nick Mercer:

Your, your parents were, I kind of adopted your pants in high school.

Nick Mercer:

They were the cool parents.

Nick Mercer:

They uh, I could, they gave me advice.

Nick Mercer:

They let me hang out at your place all the time.

Nick Mercer:

And you know.

Allie Press:

They do.

Allie Press:

I've been, been so very, so very lucky.

Allie Press:

They have tried so many times over my life to embarrass me and they just not

Allie Press:

a good, they don't do a good job of it because what I constitute as embarrassment

Allie Press:

is like how my friends feel about it.

Allie Press:

So my mom could dance on a table and as long as everybody else was like, "Woo!

Allie Press:

Yeah, Julie!"

Allie Press:

I'd be like, all right.

Nick Mercer:

But she'd crush it.

Allie Press:

She would, she would.

Allie Press:

I know for a fact, if my mom danced on on a table, y'all would be stoked.

Nick Mercer:

Julie, you're amazing.

Allie Press:

So we've talked about maybe having like our favorite quote

Allie Press:

of the episode or a top favorite quote.

Allie Press:

So I think we're going to have to have two categories of like our favorite

Allie Press:

quotes and then maybe the episode's top Cordelia quote because that's just,

Allie Press:

she always has these amazing ones.

Allie Press:

And I think top Cordelia quote for this episode is "We have

Allie Press:

to achieve our dreams, Amy.

Allie Press:

Otherwise we wither and die."

Nick Mercer:

[Laughing] Ahhhh Cordelia.

Nick Mercer:

I just, I love, I love this scene and the one right before it.

Nick Mercer:

First of all, I love for once seeing Cordelia want somebody else's approval.

Allie Press:

Mm.

Nick Mercer:

That's just amazing to me.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I love when Amy trips over her and Cordelia is like, "You saw that, right?

Nick Mercer:

You saw that, right?"

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Um, and this was another question I have for you, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

I don't think it ever, I imagine nobody threatened physical harm, but that scene

Nick Mercer:

in the locker room where Cordelia is like, "If you mess this up for me..."

Nick Mercer:

Did it get that tense in the cheerleading world?

Nick Mercer:

It did not get that tense in the high school theater world,

Nick Mercer:

which is the only world I know.

Allie Press:

No, not in the theater world.

Allie Press:

Um, I don't, I didn't really stay long enough in the cheer world

Allie Press:

to speak to our specific school.

Allie Press:

Uh, I also, wasn't one of the cool kids.

Allie Press:

I didn't get invited to like the sleepovers and stuff

Allie Press:

with the other cheerleaders.

Allie Press:

So I guess I, wasn't never really a threat enough of a threat to anybody.

Allie Press:

Um, I'm sure it does.

Nick Mercer:

If you want to call out them by name, I'm sure our listeners

Nick Mercer:

are willing to dox them, people who thought you weren't cool enough.

Allie Press:

Well, they never said so much in enough words, it's all

Allie Press:

about like plausible deniability like, well, I know that Alison got

Allie Press:

invited to the sleepover, but I didn't.

Allie Press:

Um, which was fine because.

Allie Press:

They, I mean, there's a reason I chose marching band over cheerleading, you know?

Allie Press:

Like I didn't have- Alison was my only friend because she was, she was smart

Allie Press:

and like actually intelligent and stuff.

Allie Press:

Like most of the cheerleaders on the team at the time were super stereotypical.

Allie Press:

And it was just like, yeah, I need to go where my people are.

Nick Mercer:

Oh, high school.

Allie Press:

That made the decision for me.

Allie Press:

I think I learned more from marching band than cheerleading

Allie Press:

ever could have taught me.

Allie Press:

And I think I probably, I don't know.

Allie Press:

I feel like I would have pulled some hair at some point.

Nick Mercer:

So perhaps it got tense, but we're not sure.

Nick Mercer:

Interesting.

Allie Press:

Correct.

Nick Mercer:

That makes sense.

Allie Press:

Um, yeah.

Allie Press:

So moving on, poor Willow.

Allie Press:

With Xan, all of Xander's talk about like, "Will you ask her out for me?"

Allie Press:

And all that stuff and it's just...

Nick Mercer:

"You're one of the guys."

Nick Mercer:

Uuuuuuuggggghhhhhh.

Allie Press:

"You're one of the guys!"

Allie Press:

Ugh.

Allie Press:

Poor girl.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Well, I, I'm happy that that gets dealt back to him later on in the episode.

Nick Mercer:

The same thing that he did to Willow the, oh, you're one of the, Yeah.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

And another one of my favorite quotes, which a friend put on a shirt for me one

Allie Press:

time, "For Iam Xander, king of cretins, may all lesser cretins bow before me."

Nick Mercer:

I wrote that down, too.

Nick Mercer:

That's so great.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

So this is something that you can speak to, it's not specifically to cheerleading,

Allie Press:

but the anxiety and excitement and the drama over the posting of a cast list.

Allie Press:

Not a team list, but a cast list for theater.

Allie Press:

Oof.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, I don't know about you, but you would always, I don't think, I

Nick Mercer:

don't know that I was ever surprised when I actually saw a cast list.

Nick Mercer:

I could kind of figure out, I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

So I was never surprised, but I always had a certain way that I wanted it to

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: To go.

Nick Mercer:

Mhm.

- Nick Mercer:

play out.

- Nick Mercer:

And then, and then when it doesn't play out that way?

- Nick Mercer:

Just being...

- Nick Mercer:

well, and then by the end of high school, they started posting it online,

- Nick Mercer:

which was the smarter way to it.

Allie Press:

Which was smarter.

Allie Press:

Which, I so preferred that.

Nick Mercer:

But that everybody's gathering and you have to be, like,

Nick Mercer:

positive and you have to be like

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: You have to control

Nick Mercer:

too upset in front of everybody.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Or wait, or wait to see it when you're by yourself.

Allie Press:

And say what you will about our high school theater teacher, I definitely

Allie Press:

understood a hundred percent when she would take off the day-

Nick Mercer:

Oh, yeah.

Allie Press:

When she would post the cast list and then take off the day.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Don't stick around for that.

Nick Mercer:

No.

Allie Press:

Yeah, that, I, I agreed with that, with that move.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I wrote, I'm not sure if I'm jumping ahead here.

Nick Mercer:

There's the first time we see the witchcraft actually happening.

Nick Mercer:

I commented "The witch has a sensible French tip."

Nick Mercer:

And good for her.

Nick Mercer:

If you're going to be cursing people, you may as well have a nice manicure.

Allie Press:

I definitely did not notice that, but that's so funny.

Allie Press:

No, the comment I had about her sorcery was I can so imagine getting

Allie Press:

so - Well, when we first see it, we don't know that it's not Amy.

Allie Press:

But I can imagine that upset and like horror if you found out that your parent

Allie Press:

was destroying your Barbies in such a way.

Allie Press:

Like, those are precious to some people.

Allie Press:

It's high school, but there are some things you hold onto like, yeah,

Allie Press:

I'm not playing with them right now, but do I want you to destroy them?

Allie Press:

No.

Allie Press:

So I can that, that awful feeling.

Nick Mercer:

I did not consider that for one single second.

Nick Mercer:

That is so funny.

Nick Mercer:

You're right, though.

Nick Mercer:

Those are precious.

Allie Press:

Right?

Allie Press:

Maybe those were collectibles.

Allie Press:

I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

I was going to say, too, a lot of them you can't get any more.

Allie Press:

Right!

Allie Press:

Um, another great quote that comes up when they're, again, in the library,

Allie Press:

" Why would someone target Cordelia?"

Allie Press:

And Willow's " Maybe because they met her.

Allie Press:

Did I just say that?"

Allie Press:

[Both laughing] Which I see you have on your, your quote list too.

Nick Mercer:

Well, and I think that's my favorite quote of the episode.

Allie Press:

It's a pretty solid one.

Allie Press:

We've all a moment of like, we were just a little too honest, just slipped out.

Nick Mercer:

The...

Nick Mercer:

I lost my thought.

Nick Mercer:

My dog is grumbling at me.

Nick Mercer:

Stop it.

Nick Mercer:

Sammy made me lose my thought.

Nick Mercer:

Keep going, Allie.

Allie Press:

I love drunk Buffy.

Allie Press:

[Singing] "Macho, macho man, I want to be a macho man."

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I wrote that I know it's super bad and stuff, but

Nick Mercer:

when she's singing and when she, when, uh, Xander and Willow walk

Nick Mercer:

in and she's like, "My friends!"

Allie Press:

[Chuckling] Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Buffy, drunk you is really adorable.

Allie Press:

It is.

Allie Press:

It's adorable.

Allie Press:

It's cause yeah, it's funny until it serious and she's dying.

Allie Press:

But before, before that, it's very funny.

Nick Mercer:

I also know it's super bad, but that scene where Cordelia is

Nick Mercer:

driving blind is also hilarious to me.

Allie Press:

I did have a like, I dunno, continuity, I guess,

Allie Press:

story, kind of question of like it, he said, the teacher says she's

Allie Press:

flunked driver's ed twice already.

Allie Press:

She's a sophomore.

Allie Press:

How has she already flunked twice?

Nick Mercer:

Oh, yeah, that's impressive, really.

Allie Press:

How, how early do they let you take your, your driver's

Allie Press:

license, your permit test in Sunnydale?

Allie Press:

I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

I don't know if you can, I don't know what your learning

Nick Mercer:

to drive experience was like.

Nick Mercer:

Mine was not cute.

Nick Mercer:

I can relate to the feeling where you're behind the wheel and the

Nick Mercer:

person next to you goes "Break, break, break, break, break!"

Allie Press:

Yes, of course.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Of course, mine was like, am!

Allie Press:

I am braking, I am!

Allie Press:

Honestly, the best thing my parents ever did was when they paid for

Allie Press:

me to have extra hours with the instructor so I could get my hours.

Allie Press:

And that was lovely.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Wow.

Nick Mercer:

I did not log any of my hours.

Nick Mercer:

I knew that I had gotten them because I was crossing county lines to go

Nick Mercer:

to school every day, so I for sure it got to 60 hours pretty quick.

Nick Mercer:

But for sure did not - I hope the DMV isn't listening.

Nick Mercer:

I hope they don't come and take my license or something.

Allie Press:

I don't think you're what they're worried about.

Nick Mercer:

Okay, good.

Nick Mercer:

I'm gonna take your

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: And you're definitely not,

Nick Mercer:

person to make up and write in hours.

Nick Mercer:

Thanks for being my safe space, Allie.

Allie Press:

You are so very welcome.

Nick Mercer:

Did you have to dissect anything in high school in the

Nick Mercer:

way that our Sunnydale students had to, we're dissecting a frog?

Allie Press:

Yes!

Allie Press:

In, I guess it was senior year, I took anatomy and we dissected

Allie Press:

a cow eye, a fetal pig, a rat

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Oh no, no.

Allie Press:

Rat?

Allie Press:

Yeah, I think we did rat.

Allie Press:

Um, the cow's eye was really cool cause it turns out the back of

Allie Press:

it kind of looks like a seashell.

Allie Press:

It's this very shiny, very pretty.

Allie Press:

Like you can make jewelry out of it and just like never

Allie Press:

tell anybody it's a cow eye.

Allie Press:

Um, I thought it was super cool.

Allie Press:

I found dissecting very cool.

Allie Press:

I know not everybody's into it, and obviously it didn't smell good, but

Allie Press:

I thought it was very interesting.

Nick Mercer:

I would have been horrified if you put a frog in front of me and told

Nick Mercer:

me to - I, I don't think I could do it.

Nick Mercer:

Honestly, I truly don't.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

There were some people who - well, I think most, most people, cause

Allie Press:

we, it was a class we chose to take.

Nick Mercer:

Opted into it.

Allie Press:

Or, not all of us did.

Allie Press:

Some of us, I think it was maybe, I dunno, people who were pre, were planning to be

Allie Press:

pre-med in college and stuff like that.

Allie Press:

And so they needed it.

Allie Press:

But for a bunch of us, it was just like the science we chose to take.

Allie Press:

So we knew that we would be dissecting.

Allie Press:

So we went in with that expectation.

Nick Mercer:

Yikes.

Nick Mercer:

There's a quote here that I relate to.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I think it's at the same time as the, uh, king of cretins., I am the - whatever.

Nick Mercer:

Um, Xander says, "I gotta stop taking Polaroids of her

Nick Mercer:

outside of her bedroom window."

Nick Mercer:

And I wrote, "This is relatable because I do the same thing to Allie."

Allie Press:

Yes, you do.

Allie Press:

I will never forget.

Allie Press:

I don't even know when it was.

Allie Press:

But in the middle the night, in the middle the, and you know, and

Allie Press:

I, cause I talked about, I know you know what I'm talking about.

Allie Press:

In the middle of the night you texted me, "You look beautiful while you sleep."

Allie Press:

And I read it in that like half awake, half thing.

Allie Press:

So I was, in that moment, like, how does he know?

Allie Press:

does he see me?

Allie Press:

I'm on the second floor.

Allie Press:

How is he seeing me?

Allie Press:

And then it seriously took what felt like a whole minute to process like,

Allie Press:

Allie, he doesn't literally have to be seeing you to type those words.

Allie Press:

Classic Nick.

Nick Mercer:

One of my favorite moments of us.

Allie Press:

Um, Willow's face when Buffy calls Xander one of the girls.

Allie Press:

That just like, kind of satisfied, like excited, like ha ha.

Allie Press:

Okay.

Nick Mercer:

Priceless.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

He deserved that.

Allie Press:

Um, I loved how quickly Buffy put it together when they're

Allie Press:

at Amy's house and they're meeting her "mom," and she's like, "Hahaa,

Allie Press:

students, what are you going to do?"

Allie Press:

And it's, Giles is still like, how could you not know what your daughter's doing?

Allie Press:

Blahblahblah and Buffy very quickly goes, "Amy?

Allie Press:

You're Amy, aren't you?

Allie Press:

She switched bodies."

Allie Press:

And I love, I just love that because it's just, she's not just strong,

Allie Press:

she's smart, and I think that goes a lot into her, her as the Slayer.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I like, I think she sees the brownies on the table and then makes the connection

Nick Mercer:

to how and, and yeah, it is just-

Allie Press:

From the one conversation where Willow said she and Amy used

Allie Press:

to have brownie pig out fests.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Get yourself a Slayer that's not only strong and a leader,

Nick Mercer:

but is also brilliant!

Allie Press:

Well, I think that is part of what gets you chosen because

Allie Press:

you do have to be quick on your feet and resourceful and all of that.

Allie Press:

So yeah.

Allie Press:

I have a note "Probably the only time Willow and Xander

Allie Press:

will go to a basketball game."

Nick Mercer:

[Laughing] Oh, that's funny.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I love during this sequence, this feels like really nice character

Nick Mercer:

development for Giles, kind of stepping into, to like a, like a fatherly kind

Nick Mercer:

thing he gets so, he, um, when he leaves her on the lab table, he takes his

Nick Mercer:

jacket off and makes her a pillow for it.

Nick Mercer:

It's just very sweet to me.

Allie Press:

Absolutely.

Allie Press:

And, and even before leaving Amy's house, the way he picks her

Allie Press:

up because she's gotten so weak.

Allie Press:

Yeah, definitely the start of that father figure role.

Allie Press:

Um, and speaking of parents, I love, once they're, the bodies are switched

Allie Press:

back and the mom's all pissed off.

Allie Press:

She's like, "I gave up my life so you could drag that worthless

Allie Press:

carcass around and call it living?!"

Allie Press:

It was just like, oof.

Nick Mercer:

mean, that's a talented actress.

Allie Press:

She was great!

Allie Press:

Yes!

Nick Mercer:

As soon as she called Amy or Buffy, whoever she called a brat,

Nick Mercer:

I was like, you bitch, I'm so excited for you to get sent into that statue.

Nick Mercer:

I can't stand you.

Allie Press:

Yes, I do, like definitely from a shop talk perspective, when an

Allie Press:

actor has to play multiple roles like, you know, pretending I am my teenage

Allie Press:

daughter in my body, that kind of thing, is always so very impressive.

Allie Press:

And hats off to her.

Allie Press:

I should have looked up her name, but, uh, all of you can do that.

Nick Mercer:

So I have a question.

Allie Press:

Okay.

Nick Mercer:

We learn that Amy and her mom switched bodies months ago.

Nick Mercer:

This is not a new thing.

Nick Mercer:

Amy has been, like, they've-

Allie Press:

It's probably lost all the weight

Allie Press:

. Nick Mercer: But then why is she

Allie Press:

and knocks over Cordelia?

Allie Press:

Oh!

Allie Press:

Okay.

Allie Press:

So I do have an answer for that because when she's upset, she's upset

Allie Press:

after the klutz stuff, and she's talking to Buffy she says, "But I

Allie Press:

can't get my body to move like hers."

Nick Mercer:

Oooohhhh, yyyeeeaaahhh.

Allie Press:

Maybe there's some limitation of it not being her body.

Nick Mercer:

Interesting.

Nick Mercer:

I think you're right.

Nick Mercer:

I think you're totally right.

Nick Mercer:

I was just wondering-

Allie Press:

Something just about, like, her coordination in that body.

Allie Press:

She just can't get it to, to work right.

Nick Mercer:

Well, and I think that helps back up the idea that not only, not only

Nick Mercer:

do your kids have different interests than you do so you can't expect them to be into

Nick Mercer:

the same things you are, but also just literally their bodies might be different.

Allie Press:

Right.

Allie Press:

Their actual abilities.

Nick Mercer:

Very interesting.

Nick Mercer:

Hmm.

Allie Press:

I have "Property damage!"

Allie Press:

When they're fighting in the, in the lab and a whole bunch

Allie Press:

of like glasses get broken.

Allie Press:

I'm just like that poor school.

Allie Press:

This is a small town.

Allie Press:

I guarantee they a science budget.

Allie Press:

These are the I think of when I watch television.

Nick Mercer:

I hope they have a good insurance broker at least.

Allie Press:

God, I hope so.

Nick Mercer:

Probably not, I don't know.

Allie Press:

Oh!

Allie Press:

Okay.

Allie Press:

Also a weird thing.

Allie Press:

Giles says, "I hope it works this is my first casting."

Allie Press:

Lies!

Nick Mercer:

You filfthy fucking liar.

Nick Mercer:

You're a liar.

Allie Press:

Uh, yeah.

Allie Press:

I mean, maybe that's one of those reality things of like, maybe when they

Allie Press:

wrote this episode, they didn't quite have fleshed out his entire backstory?

Allie Press:

But we will learn has dabbled in witchcraft and sorcery

Allie Press:

and that kind of stuff.

Allie Press:

He has definitely cast spells.

Allie Press:

Maybe he means it's the first time he's casting this spell?

Allie Press:

Certainly not his first time casting a spell.

Nick Mercer:

Maybe he means, too, it's the, you know, back to, he's

Nick Mercer:

really starting to care for Buffy.

Nick Mercer:

Maybe this feels like higher stakes because he really loves,

Nick Mercer:

you know, he cares for his Slayer.

Nick Mercer:

Who knows?

Nick Mercer:

I, I, uh, picked up, yeah, a little continuity thing too.

Nick Mercer:

Um, oh, opening sequence alert.

Nick Mercer:

There's the, when Amy's, when it gets reflected back at her and

Nick Mercer:

she, uh, she's like screaming cause the spell is hitting her.

Nick Mercer:

That's in the opening, opening sequence.

Nick Mercer:

I never noticed.

Allie Press:

Yes, there's a bunch of that in the, bunch of this

Allie Press:

episode in the opening sequence.

Allie Press:

Cause you see the cauldron being stirred, you see the black cat

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Oh yeah!

Allie Press:

-Cat jumping out of the trunk.

Nick Mercer:

I forgot about the black cat.

Nick Mercer:

That's true, too.

Nick Mercer:

I hope that cat's okay.

Nick Mercer:

I hope he went to live with Amy and her dad.

Allie Press:

I think the cat is probably fine.

Allie Press:

Cats are usually fine.

Nick Mercer:

I'm gonna look it up.

Nick Mercer:

I'm gonna

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: We come to that moment

Nick Mercer:

And she says, and I think it's so big of her, and this is where she does get

Nick Mercer:

an A+ in parenting where she comes in and she's, "You know, I've been thinking

Nick Mercer:

about it and I just don't get it.

Nick Mercer:

I think there are some-" And she says something along the lines of, you know,

Nick Mercer:

I think there were some things that, you know, I can't understand about being a

Nick Mercer:

16-year-old because I'm not a 16-year-old.

Nick Mercer:

And I think that's a huge thing.

Nick Mercer:

Yep, and I see you have it, um, you have it written in the quotes.

Nick Mercer:

Cause it's just, that is such a big thing about parenting that I think

Nick Mercer:

maybe our generation is going to be better at than previous generations,

Nick Mercer:

admitting your imperfections.

Nick Mercer:

Because you're gonna make mistakes.

Nick Mercer:

Your parents made mistakes, goodness knows.

Nick Mercer:

So it's the, I think the biggest thing is not not making mistakes

Nick Mercer:

because that's unavoidable.

Nick Mercer:

It's about how you react afterwards and admitting that, yeah, I'm sorry

Nick Mercer:

for what I said cause I fucked up.

Nick Mercer:

And so that's huge of Joyce to do that.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I really liked that too.

Nick Mercer:

I was not happy with her it all went down, but then, but then yeah, circling back

Nick Mercer:

and um, I, I feel like it's just great modeling about how, about how parents

Nick Mercer:

will make mistakes and, and you know, how they can move through those mistakes and

Nick Mercer:

continue to engage with their kids, even when they're in very different places.

Nick Mercer:

I really liked that.

Allie Press:

Yeah, and I, and that's, and that is where I do truly love

Allie Press:

Joyce, even when I don't love everything she says or everything she does,

Allie Press:

you know she is a hundred percent trying her hardest and everything is

Allie Press:

coming from the best possible place.

Allie Press:

And that's the most you can hope for.

Nick Mercer:

Mhm.

Nick Mercer:

She sure does love, love her one and only daughter, the only

Nick Mercer:

daughter she's ever going to have.

Allie Press:

Yup, ever, ever.

Allie Press:

Um, and then the last, the last note I have for this episode is,

Allie Press:

"I'm thinking of getting fat."

Allie Press:

Lol, aren't we all, Amy?

Allie Press:

Aren't we all.

Allie Press:

What have I just let go?

Nick Mercer:

And then I think Buffy says something back in support of that.

Nick Mercer:

She's like, "Yeah, I think that's in for the spring."

Nick Mercer:

Or something.

Allie Press:

Yeah, exactly.

Allie Press:

"Yeah, I think that look's the spring."

Nick Mercer:

Good thinking, really.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Why not?

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

You're Right.

Nick Mercer:

This is a great episode.

Nick Mercer:

is.

Allie Press:

Right?

Allie Press:

So many great moments with all of the characters.

Allie Press:

You know, really seeing, um, Xander stepping out and his big crush on Buffy.

Allie Press:

And it is interesting, a lot of his comments I was like,

Allie Press:

"oh, I should just be a man.

Allie Press:

I should just ask her out."

Allie Press:

And that doesn't really pay off.

Allie Press:

Cause we, he does continue to have this crush on Buffy and that definitely factors

Allie Press:

into his opinions of Angel later on.

Allie Press:

Um, I think that clouds a lot of his judgment.

Allie Press:

But he never does - or maybe it's late, maybe it's later, but I feel

Allie Press:

like he doesn't have a moment where he does really come out, lay it on the

Allie Press:

table, will you go on a date with me?

Nick Mercer:

Mhm.

Allie Press:

Which, again, is totally, totally accurate to a high schooler.

Allie Press:

I get it, but that's interesting.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I don't love how the, uh, how, how it all, I'm, I'm

Nick Mercer:

looking forward to, thinking through that episode with you, through the

Nick Mercer:

episodes to come where he's like continuing to wrestle with this crush.

Nick Mercer:

Um, yeah, definite high school boy, isn't he?

Nick Mercer:

Oh, Xander, but we love you for it.

Allie Press:

I mean, I was, I feel like I was very much the same.

Allie Press:

I have always been romantically inclined, so I've always had crushes and stuff.

Allie Press:

And junior year...

Allie Press:

Um, I made moves, but, again, I still never directly asked this

Allie Press:

person out, but I invited them over to bake for a friend's birthday.

Allie Press:

And we, I invited him over to watch movies.

Allie Press:

And I remember, I'll never forget, when I was kind of, I guess, venting or whatever

Allie Press:

to my parents and saying, you know, I feel like the ball's in his court, like

Allie Press:

I've made it very clear that like, I want to spend time with him and all that.

Allie Press:

And my dad just said to me, well, have you literally told him

Allie Press:

"I like you" or asked him out?

Allie Press:

And I was like, well, no.

Allie Press:

And that's when my dad was like, well, then you haven't done everything or

Allie Press:

you haven't been as clear as possible.

Nick Mercer:

Bruce Press.

Allie Press:

I know.

Allie Press:

Although I did find out years later, he did know that I had a crush on him.

Allie Press:

So I was like, okay, cool.

Allie Press:

So my advancements weren't like totally unnoticed.

Allie Press:

Now, I mean, it's a good thing.

Allie Press:

We're close friends now, and had we tried to date or if I had tried to

Allie Press:

ask him out, he would have said no.

Allie Press:

Or if he had said yes, it would have been terrible.

Allie Press:

It would have ruined our budding friendship and it would

Allie Press:

have just been a bad idea.

Allie Press:

It never would've worked out.

Allie Press:

Um, but at the time, uh, junior year Allie thought it would

Allie Press:

have a match made in heaven.

Nick Mercer:

I'm glad things worked out the way they did.

Nick Mercer:

I regret that I led you on, Allie.

Allie Press:

[Laughing] Yes, I was-

Nick Mercer:

You've been talking about me, right?

Allie Press:

Yes, this whole time.

Allie Press:

Yep.

Nick Mercer:

Great.

Nick Mercer:

I thought so.

Nick Mercer:

Um, what do you think, I struggled, I, I struggled coming up with the

Nick Mercer:

moral of the story for this one.

Nick Mercer:

Um, so I'll share what I came up with and then you can offer your thoughts as well.

Nick Mercer:

The moral of the story that I see is that you are your own person, some

Nick Mercer:

people are going to want you to be different, and you can't be different.

Nick Mercer:

You can only be you.

Nick Mercer:

And that's awesome!

Nick Mercer:

That's great!

Allie Press:

I mostly agree with that.

Allie Press:

I would refine that a little to say specifically your parents.

Allie Press:

Your parents have expectations of you and that's, that's just a fact of life.

Allie Press:

And also, more of a theme than a moral of the story of just...

Allie Press:

parents, am I right?

Nick Mercer:

Mm.

Allie Press:

Um, I feel like that's a huge thing.

Allie Press:

I feel like a lot of parental relationships come to a head in high

Allie Press:

school because you're starting to become a person with your own thoughts and

Allie Press:

feelings and you're gaining independence.

Allie Press:

Some people are driving now and those kinds of things, and you're

Allie Press:

starting to pull apart from being totally under your parents' wing.

Allie Press:

So I feel like that's where a lot of clashes with parents happen and it's where

Allie Press:

you're starting to, you know, figure out what do you want to do with your life?

Allie Press:

What do my parents want me to do?

Allie Press:

What are they want me to major in college?

Allie Press:

What clubs do they think I should be in?

Allie Press:

All of those things.

Allie Press:

We, we came from a very academically inclined high school.

Allie Press:

So there was definitely a lot of pressure in that arena - which

Allie Press:

colleges to apply for?

Allie Press:

How many colleges?

Allie Press:

How many APs are you taking?

Allie Press:

Are you going to take the AP test?

Allie Press:

All of that.

Allie Press:

So much parental pressure.

Allie Press:

You know, for better or worse.

Allie Press:

I think some, there are definitely parents out there who don't put enough pressure,

Allie Press:

who aren't involved enough, but it can definitely swing in both directions.

Nick Mercer:

And something I have in the back of my mind, too, as

Nick Mercer:

I'm thinking about the rest of Amy's trajectory and there's ups

Nick Mercer:

and downs, but she's a bad-ass.

Nick Mercer:

She's, what she decides that she wants to do...

Nick Mercer:

And I don't want to spoil too much for our listeners who may not have

Nick Mercer:

watched yet, but she's damn good at it.

Nick Mercer:

She doesn't always use her powers for good, but

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: Yeah, without a doubt.

Nick Mercer:

But she's strong at what she does, so...

Allie Press:

Yeah, without a doubt powerful.

Allie Press:

And it is her, her side storyline is definitely interesting and could

Allie Press:

definitely, and definitely plays into this larger idea of Buffy being a metaphor.

Allie Press:

And how much of this situation with her mom affected those things down the line.

Allie Press:

You know, what is this instability in her youth with her parents fighting and then

Allie Press:

ending up with her mom and then, you know, ending up with her dad who - her dad seems

Allie Press:

lovely, but that's still instability.

Allie Press:

And some of that is enough to just shake a person.

Allie Press:

Um, and even just shake your views of your parents.

Allie Press:

Like, well, my mom was a literal witch, so I don't know if I had just

Allie Press:

like trust parents in general anymore.

Nick Mercer:

Um, brilliant.

Nick Mercer:

What have we not discussed that you would like to about this episode, Allie?

Allie Press:

We got everything.

Allie Press:

We got everything.

Allie Press:

We went through all my notes.

Nick Mercer:

We went through all the mine too.

Nick Mercer:

How bout

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I don't love the bracelet from Xander.

Allie Press:

Yeah...

Nick Mercer:

That's a little weird, right?

Allie Press:

was weird but I supposed to be weird.

Allie Press:

I mean, that's the point.

Nick Mercer:

And probably high school boy, new to crushes.

Nick Mercer:

Doesn't know what you're

Allie Press:

Supposed to do.

Allie Press:

And it is a very sweet gesture.

Allie Press:

There's a concept that came, that was brought up in How I Met Your Mother, um,

Allie Press:

where it's all - the romanticness of a gesture is all in the eye of the beholder.

Allie Press:

Because if Buffy had been secretly crushing on him, she would have

Allie Press:

been in love with that bracelet.

Allie Press:

She would never, she would be sleeping with that on.

Allie Press:

She would never take it off.

Allie Press:

So.

Nick Mercer:

True!

Nick Mercer:

That's a great point.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Which is very, very interesting.

Allie Press:

Now, luckily she was spared that because it was stolen to curse her.

Allie Press:

But, um, yeah, like if Willow had gotten that bracelet, she would have loved it.

Allie Press:

It would not have been seen as weird at all.

Allie Press:

She would've seen it as super sweet and super romantic

Allie Press:

and as an excellent gesture.

Nick Mercer:

To be fair, relatedly, if I'm annoyed by somebody or if I

Nick Mercer:

don't like somebody, anything they do, anything, I will find offensive.

Allie Press:

Yeah, it could be totally a reasonable thing.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

No, everything that they do is awful

Nick Mercer:

Hmm, interesting life lessons, both from Buffy and from what?

Nick Mercer:

I Met Your Mother.

Nick Mercer:

Hmm, lovely.

Nick Mercer:

Well, Allie.

Allie Press:

Yes.

Nick Mercer:

I think that about does it for this episode.

Nick Mercer:

I would love to thank everybody so much for joining us and I hope you will join us

Nick Mercer:

again for our next episode where we will season one, episode four, "Teacher's Pet."

Allie Press:

Yes, I'm very excited for the conversations

Allie Press:

we're going to have that one.

Allie Press:

I think we're going to have a lot to talk about.

Allie Press:

If you are just too excited to wait until our next episode to chat, send us

Allie Press:

an email at tabularasabpod@gmail.com.

Allie Press:

You can also say hello to us on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at @tabularasabpod.

Allie Press:

I love the consistency of all of those handles.

Allie Press:

Thank you very much, Nick.

Allie Press:

And if you would like more from me, Allie Press, you can find me

Allie Press:

at alliepress.net, @Daughterpick on Instagram and Twitter - D-A-U G-H-T E-R

Allie Press:

P-I-C-K, and @futureblackcat - spelled like how you think - on TikTok.

Nick Mercer:

And I'm not nearly interesting enough for you to be

Nick Mercer:

interested in following me on Twitter, so you should instead go to Allie's

Nick Mercer:

Buy Me A Coffee website, which is what?

Allie Press:

Aww, thank you.

Allie Press:

BuyMeACoffee.com/AlliePress.

Nick Mercer:

Glorious.

Nick Mercer:

And all of those social media handles are in the description, our friends.

Nick Mercer:

So, until next time, all of you...

Allie Press:

Make proud

Nick Mercer:

Make some proud choices.

Nick Mercer:

Bye!

Allie Press:

Byeeeee!

Outro Music:

[Outro Music slowly fades in.]

Nick Mercer:

Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Nick Mercer:

is hosted by Allie Press and Nick Mercer with music by InflatonCult,

Nick Mercer:

artwork by Charlotte Fleming Design, and consultation by

Nick Mercer:

Evo Terra.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Tabula Rasa, B!tches!: A Buffy Rewatch Show
Tabula Rasa, B!tches!: A Buffy Rewatch Show

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Nick Mercer

Nick Mercer

Nick Mercer (he/him) works as a fundraiser for a nonprofit organization. He was introduced to Buffy by his illustrious co-host when they became fast friends over the summers in elementary school. Nick credits Buffy for his early passion for social justice.

When not cheering on our favorite Sunnydale warriors in their fights against the supernatural, Nick enjoys cooking and engaging in political advocacy in his local community. Nick's favorite quote from Buffy is, "You have to take care of each other. You have to be strong. Dawn, the hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Be brave."

Nick lives in South Carolina with his perfect puggle, Joseph.
Profile picture for Allie Press

Allie Press

Allie Press (she/her) is a Maryland-born actor with aspirations for all kinds of film. Her goal is to play Felicia Hardy for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Allie earned her BFA in Acting from Towson University in 2016.

Allie began watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer during its original airing at just three years old. She's taken many of Buffy's lessons to heart - perhaps none more so than Buffy's reflection that "fortune favors the brave." When not rewatching Buffy or exchanging notes with her dear co-host, you can find Allie with one of her many other hats - maybe as a costume designer, nanny, stage manager, or podcast production assistant with Simpler Media.

Allie currently lives in Atlanta with her partner and puppy. Connect with Allie on Instagram at @daughterpick or TikTok at @futureblackcat, and support her work as an artist at buymeacoffee.com/alliepress.