Episode 102

The Harvest

“The Harvest” picks up right where the pilot episode left off. Buffy saves her friends for the first, but not the last, time, and the gang experiences their first of many losses. The Scoobies rally and use their unique talents to thwart The Harvest and stop (or delay? Hmm…) the Master from being released and bringing about the end of the world.

Tune in for a discussion of this episode, fight choreography, Xander’s toxic masculinity, and how - sometimes - our parents just don’t get it! 

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Credits

Transcript
Intro Music:

[Intro Music]

Allie & Nick:

Welcome to Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Intro Music:

[Intro Music]

Allie Press:

Hello, hello!

Nick Mercer:

Helloooooooo.

Allie Press:

My name is Allie.

Nick Mercer:

And my name is Nick.

Allie Press:

And welcome to episode two of Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Allie Press:

We're so glad you are here.

Nick Mercer:

In Tabula Rasa, B!tches!, you'll listen as two decades-long

Nick Mercer:

friends jump back into the world of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and relive

Nick Mercer:

the show that brought them close together and taught them so many of

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the values they still cherish today.

Nick Mercer:

And side note for our friends, we will be discussing this episode spoilers and all.

Nick Mercer:

If you haven't watched yet, and you don't want to hear spoilers, hit the pause

Nick Mercer:

button, go do your watching, come back.

Nick Mercer:

We're going to be anxiously awaiting your return.

Allie Press:

Yes.

Allie Press:

Each episode of Tabula Rasa, B!tches!, we'll dive into an episode of Buffy

Allie Press:

the Vampire Slayer and discuss the lessons that can be learned from our

Allie Press:

favorite Sunnydale warriors and the supernatural creatures they use their

Allie Press:

talents and friendship to overcome.

Allie Press:

Today, we'll be discussing season one, episode two, "The Harvest."

Nick Mercer:

And what an episode it is, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

Let's dive into our episode summary here.

Allie Press:

Yeah, let's go for it.

Nick Mercer:

So, this episode picks up right where the last one left off.

Nick Mercer:

So in the cemetery, Buffy beats back Luke and saves Xander and Willow from vampires.

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But Jesse, who was with Xander and Willow, is gone.

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And we learn that Jesse has been taken to The Master as an offering.

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Hearing that they encountered a Slayer, The Master decides to instead use

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Jesse as a bait to lure Buffy back.

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Buffy goes back to find Jesse and finds Angel who, again, warns about The Harvest.

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Against Buffy's instructions, Xander has followed, and they find out

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Jesse has been turned into a vampire.

Nick Mercer:

Buffy and Xander make their escape.

Allie Press:

The gang learns that that evening is The Harvest when Luke will

Allie Press:

funnel energy he gains from killing people to help The Master escape from his prison.

Allie Press:

They correctly guess that the vampires will hit up The Bronze

Allie Press:

as the site for The Harvest.

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Xander saves Cordelia from Jesse and kills him, and Buffy dispatches Luke.

Allie Press:

At school the next day, everyone seems to have forgotten or rationalized

Allie Press:

what went on the night before.

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The Scoobies are officially established and ready to take

Allie Press:

on whatever evil comes next.

Nick Mercer:

Man, oh man.

Nick Mercer:

There's a lot there, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

Where should we start?

Allie Press:

Well, I had like an overarching idea about this episode when

Allie Press:

I was thinking about going into this one.

Allie Press:

What's really cool about this one, which it makes sense, it's the second

Allie Press:

episode of a series, but this is where, really, it all starts, lots of firsts.

Allie Press:

You know, we get Willow researching, we get the Scooby gang

Allie Press:

saddling up for the first time.

Allie Press:

We see Buffy skipping school and like kinda getting in trouble and stuff.

Allie Press:

Um, you know, more quips and awesome - we see a bunch of

Allie Press:

like her acrobatics and stuff.

Allie Press:

So just like another, it's a very cool, establishing episode, a good

Allie Press:

foothold into what's to come, I think.

Nick Mercer:

For sure, we do notice a lot of stuff for the first time.

Nick Mercer:

Um, one of the notes that I have right here at the beginning is, um - I think

Nick Mercer:

that's astute of you, Allie, too.

Nick Mercer:

It really is the first time so many first things happen, which is really cool.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I wrote down, um, the, so we talked about how Buffy very reluctantly

Nick Mercer:

is taking on this Slayer stuff.

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She's still not jazzed about it.

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She wants to be done with it.

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But when she saw that Jesse had been taken, she was so

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concerned for her friend.

Nick Mercer:

She was really scared and that was a powerful visual for me.

Allie Press:

Oh, I did have a thought, um, kind of harkening

Allie Press:

back to our first episode where we talked about how reluctant she is.

Allie Press:

She's, you know, very much in denial, even though she packed a stake to go to school.

Allie Press:

Um, very in denial of her calling, her destiny, whatever you want to call it.

Allie Press:

But what I remembered as I was watching this episode is, if we're

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referring to the movie as canon, which I do think certain things are true.

Allie Press:

Obviously her, her Watcher died.

Allie Press:

Whether we just get that from the fact that like she was able to

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move and he didn't move with her or just, you know, watching the

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original movie, her Watcher died.

Allie Press:

That's huge.

Allie Press:

That's huge.

Allie Press:

So that can be a, I can understand that being a huge factor in

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her reluctance to continue.

Allie Press:

Like, I watched this father figure die.

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You think I'm just gonna - it's well, and it's kind of like when a new parent comes

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in and like, oh, I'm just supposed to like accept you as like this new crucial role?

Allie Press:

Oh, you're just going to step in as my new Watcher?

Allie Press:

You think you can just do that?

Allie Press:

So I can see how she does, she's not jazzed to have this new guy

Allie Press:

in her life when so much of this awful history has already happened

Allie Press:

in her, like, what, one year?

Allie Press:

She was a freshman, I think, when she was called?

Allie Press:

And she's only a sophomore now.

Allie Press:

So it's only been, she was only a Slayer for a year.

Nick Mercer:

I have a note related to that that will come up later.

Nick Mercer:

But yeah, a note related to this immense amount of death that these

Nick Mercer:

teenagers are experiencing very up close and personally very early on.

Nick Mercer:

But I wonder if you wrote the same thing.

Allie Press:

Interesting.

Allie Press:

Okay.

Allie Press:

So the first note that I have is Angel's cross already saving Buffy.

Allie Press:

Um, we end up seeing that cross come up quite a lot.

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And like we mentioned in the first episode, not quite sure

Allie Press:

how long it sticks around.

Allie Press:

It's at least the first three seasons while, while he's in her life.

Allie Press:

Um, so yeah, warding off Luke.

Allie Press:

It's what keeps her from not dying as the cliffhanger left us.

Allie Press:

Um, and then as that fight kind of continues and she's able to get away, the

Allie Press:

note, "So glad SMG's fighting got better."

Allie Press:

[Nick laughing] It's, it's rough.

Nick Mercer:

I almost wrote down the evolution of Buffy's grunts

Nick Mercer:

and hi-yahs, whatever throughout.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

They do get a lot better, don't they?

Allie Press:

They do, which I guess, okay.

Allie Press:

We did, we did just mention, she's only been doing this for a year.

Allie Press:

So, you know, maybe her form isn't the best.

Allie Press:

Maybe we can give that to her.

Allie Press:

I know part of it was Sarah Michelle Gellar's, you know, uh, newness to

Allie Press:

fight choreography and stuff, but oof.

Allie Press:

I mean, even just like the way she holds her hands, you can just tell

Allie Press:

you're like, mmm, I don't think you're going to throw that punch.

Nick Mercer:

If you do, that's going to hurt.

Nick Mercer:

And I know because I'm a black belt.

Nick Mercer:

No, I'm not.

Nick Mercer:

I'm not.

Nick Mercer:

I'm just joking.

Allie Press:

Yeah, but like we know to like, not break your wrist and hold, hold

Allie Press:

your thumb a certain way so that you're not like breaking your fingers and stuff.

Allie Press:

But a lot goes into form and technique.

Allie Press:

And I guess we can, we can give that one to her, like, well, maybe it's Buffy

Allie Press:

who's new and not Sarah Michelle Gellar.

Nick Mercer:

And Allie, I know that you are getting more

Nick Mercer:

familiar with fight choreography.

Nick Mercer:

Why is that?

Nick Mercer:

[In a stage whisper] Do the plug now.

Nick Mercer:

Do the plug.

Allie Press:

Oh, okay.

Allie Press:

Well, for your consideration, Allie Press as Felicia Hardy, the Black

Allie Press:

Cat for the Marvel Cinematic Universe - or whoever owns that property.

Allie Press:

Cause it might be Sony.

Allie Press:

But Sony Pictures, I'm talking to you, too.

Allie Press:

Maybe you still continue your flirting relationship with Marvel.

Allie Press:

Tom Holland, he's eventually going to need to move on from

Allie Press:

Zendaya - Spider-Man/Peter Parker is going to have to move away from MJ.

Allie Press:

Because they're so cute.

Allie Press:

I'm not interested in breaking them up.

Allie Press:

I'm not a homewrecker.

Allie Press:

Um, but you know, looking for more content for Disney+?

Allie Press:

You're bringing a lot of female characters to Disney+ with SheHulk and Ms.

Allie Press:

Marvel and the new Hawkeye, what's one more?

Allie Press:

Come on.

Allie Press:

No, one's going to stop demanding female leads.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Just take the plunge here.

Nick Mercer:

And we have the perfect female lead right here on this podcast, guys!

Allie Press:

Right!

Allie Press:

Like you have so many decisions to make in your lives, let me

Allie Press:

just make this one for you.

Allie Press:

So yes, I am hoping to do more.

Allie Press:

There's a lot of fight choreography certifications you can get,

Allie Press:

weapons and Stunt School and stuff.

Allie Press:

Oh, my god, so many different things.

Allie Press:

I wanna do it at all.

Allie Press:

Anyway, I am indeed a, uh, superhero in training.

Nick Mercer:

And a, just a super hero in my life.

Allie Press:

Awww, you're so sweet.

Allie Press:

I'm going to throw up.

Nick Mercer:

Awww.

Allie Press:

Oh!

Allie Press:

Buffy's resourcefulness.

Allie Press:

So she gets out of the, out of the mausoleum and she has to fight the

Allie Press:

vamps off of, um, Xander and Willow and she breaks the tree branch.

Allie Press:

Like that's dope because, oh, this is another thing it's like, she has

Allie Press:

to be resourceful because right now she's leaving her stakes in the vamps.

Allie Press:

You'll see later on she stakes and then removes so that

Allie Press:

she doesn't lose her stake.

Allie Press:

Um, because yeah, how much fucking time must that be sitting at home?

Allie Press:

How is Joyce not like what are all these knives doing here?

Nick Mercer:

Just whittling down...

Allie Press:

Right, like, Buffy's she's got this great little hobby of whittling.

Allie Press:

I don't know what, I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

I remember the first time, Allie, you made me aware of

Nick Mercer:

the difference, the evolution that happens in the seasons of the leaving

Nick Mercer:

the stakes in that then become dust going to what we'll see later, which

Nick Mercer:

is when she just stabs and doesn't - super, super fan for years, you are.

Allie Press:

Yuppers.

Allie Press:

And they weren't dusting, and you'll see once or twice in these first

Allie Press:

couple episodes that there's a vamp that doesn't dust immediately.

Allie Press:

Um, that definitely changes.

Allie Press:

Um, I feel, I, I want to say I heard in a commentary thing that

Allie Press:

it was just a practicality thing of just like, it was so hard always.

Allie Press:

And then you're like, you're in the middle of a fight and, what,

Allie Press:

there's all these just bodies and tripping hazards and stuff?

Allie Press:

Like no, they, they dust and stuff.

Allie Press:

Oh!

Allie Press:

But I had a note about that of like, it actually does make

Allie Press:

sense for vampires to dust.

Allie Press:

Kind of.

Allie Press:

Like, if you justify like magic and stuff.

Allie Press:

So if you, when you kill them, it like kills the demon and stuff and what that's,

Allie Press:

what's like keeping them young forever.

Allie Press:

So all of that, I don't know, some, some of them live for like

Allie Press:

hundreds and hundreds of years.

Allie Press:

So all of that age is coming back and you're just dust.

Nick Mercer:

Oh, interesting.

Nick Mercer:

I've never thought about it like that before.

Allie Press:

Well, cause there's been other things that I've seen, like I

Allie Press:

think Stardust when they've been keeping themselves young with their magic and

Allie Press:

stuff, and then whatever that magic is, was like taken away, you see, it's not as

Allie Press:

immediate as the dustings of vampires in this, but you see very quickly she ages,

Allie Press:

ages, ages, and then it's just like, pfff.

Nick Mercer:

And what's left?

Nick Mercer:

You just become dust.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Just dust.

Nick Mercer:

I feel that.

Allie Press:

All we are is dust in the wind.

Nick Mercer:

I love this quote that happens in the next scene from Giles, he's

Nick Mercer:

kind of giving his Vampires/Demons 101 to Xander and Willow and he's talking about

Nick Mercer:

the start of the earth, where he shares that there used to be demons or whatever.

Nick Mercer:

I think I might be butchering it a little bit, but the quote that he says,

Nick Mercer:

uh, he's referencing old earth and he says, "Contrary to popular mythology,

Nick Mercer:

it did not start as a paradise."

Nick Mercer:

And I feel like that was the creators giving a little dunk

Nick Mercer:

really early on, on religion.

Allie Press:

Yes.

Allie Press:

I actually had that same quote in my notes because there's a lot of things

Allie Press:

that I think domino when you find out that certain things are real.

Allie Press:

One of the big beefs I had with Twilight, with stupid Bella was that like, once

Allie Press:

you find out that vampires are real and you've heard myths of werewolves,

Allie Press:

wouldn't you immediately go A+B=C?

Allie Press:

And say like, oh, well then, that's obviously real too.

Allie Press:

So, if holy water and crosses work to deter demons, then like,

Allie Press:

does that mean god is real?

Allie Press:

Like, should we be all attending Sunday mass and stuff?

Nick Mercer:

Don't make me.

Nick Mercer:

Please don't make me.

Allie Press:

No.

Allie Press:

Well, but that's the thing is that like this in a very quick way, if you're not

Allie Press:

studying it, like we are, kind of already says like, well not everything's right.

Allie Press:

So then you can see where it's like, okay, some things are true, like yes,

Allie Press:

demons exist, but like, it's not all true.

Nick Mercer:

There's another note in this scene too, that I feel like does

Nick Mercer:

that same kind of thing where it's setting some boundaries on this world

Nick Mercer:

that we're just getting introduced to when Buffy says, um, the, the quote

Nick Mercer:

is, " As soon as the vampires cleared the graveyard, they could've just voom."

Nick Mercer:

And Xander goes

Nick Mercer:

- Allie & Nick: "They can fly?"

Nick Mercer:

"They can drive."

Allie Press:

[Laughter] I love that look on his face, like, oh...yeah, of course.

Nick Mercer:

No, but I like that too, because as soon as like you say, as soon

Nick Mercer:

as you bring in holy water and crosses, what else are you bringing in, too?

Nick Mercer:

And it's just a way that you can kind of ground everything.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

And a lot of that, that other vampire mythos will come up much, much later.

Allie Press:

So yeah.

Allie Press:

Interesting contradiction of the Christian mythology.

Allie Press:

Um, I want Xander's mushroom shirt.

Nick Mercer:

I made a few fashion notes.

Nick Mercer:

I didn't, I didn't detect his mushroom shirt.

Nick Mercer:

I'll have to watch it again.

Allie Press:

It's bright green!

Allie Press:

It's in that same scene we've been talking about.

Allie Press:

Um, and what's interesting is when you say that, like she's so sassy,

Allie Press:

sassy about not believing in vampires, because it's just give a little sass

Allie Press:

of like what her first reaction was.

Allie Press:

And it's like, okay, now that I know more about rabies and actually what

Allie Press:

it does to a human, when it gets really bad, if it goes untreated, that

Allie Press:

actually is a very valid explanation.

Allie Press:

You can legit lose your mind and you're foaming at the mouth and

Allie Press:

your face is all scrunched up and you're just angry and deranged.

Allie Press:

And you're like hallucinating and stuff.

Allie Press:

Sure, if I, if it was dark and you know, I was in like trauma and, you know, I was

Allie Press:

in shock and stuff like I could buy that.

Allie Press:

I could buy rabies.

Nick Mercer:

That's funny, I just had that same experience today, but it was

Nick Mercer:

after I got a particular email from work.

Nick Mercer:

And I don't think that it was rabies related, but that's good to know

Nick Mercer:

that it can look a lot like...

Allie Press:

Oh, it's, it's bad.

Allie Press:

There was an episode of Criminal Minds where someone's like giving people rabies.

Allie Press:

It's bad.

Nick Mercer:

Very rude.

Allie Press:

It's, it's a horrible disease and it's actually still to this

Allie Press:

date, one of the oldest diseases and one of the deadliest because if you are not

Allie Press:

treated in the first like 24 hours or 36 hours or something like that after

Allie Press:

exposure , the only conclusion is death.

Allie Press:

[Nick gasp] Outside of that window, they can make you comfortable.

Allie Press:

That's it.

Nick Mercer:

I just Googled rabies and I feel like that's a mistake.

Nick Mercer:

I feel like I shouldn't Google image rabies.

Nick Mercer:

I'm not going to, I'm going to click away.

Allie Press:

I mean, if you're up to your shot up, up-to-date on your

Allie Press:

shots and your dogs are up to date on your shots, and then you're fine.

Allie Press:

If you don't like go crash a dog fighting ring or something

Allie Press:

like that, you should be fine.

Nick Mercer:

Not today.

Nick Mercer:

We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Allie Press:

Don't take any, uh, in any wild animals and you'll be fine.

Allie Press:

Oh, speaking of some sass, uh, I love, Giles is about to launch

Allie Press:

into the "Into each generation a Slayer is born, she alone..."

Allie Press:

and Buffy goes, "Oh, he loves this part."

Allie Press:

[Nick laughs] And he's like, "All right.

Allie Press:

The Slayer hunts vampires.

Allie Press:

Buffy's the Slayer.

Allie Press:

Don't tell anyone."

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

That's so good.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, yeah, the Buffy sass is good.

Nick Mercer:

She, her quips are just, I want to be clever like she is.

Allie Press:

Right?!

Nick Mercer:

I, um, I had a question.

Nick Mercer:

I, I, there just comes a part, it's not a question.

Nick Mercer:

There just comes a part where I have to suspend my disbelief a little bit.

Nick Mercer:

But when Xander says, oh, there's an electrical tunnel

Nick Mercer:

running underneath the city.

Allie Press:

I had that same thought of like, who would know that?

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

You have a remarkable grasp on the infrastructure in your town, Xander.

Allie Press:

I mean, maybe if we lived in that small of a town,

Allie Press:

there's things you just know?

Allie Press:

Like maybe there's people who go hang out in the tunnels?

Allie Press:

I, I don't know.

Allie Press:

I, again, that is one of the justifications I can give of like, there's

Allie Press:

a lot I don't know about small town life.

Allie Press:

So, I dunno, maybe.

Nick Mercer:

Maybe.

Nick Mercer:

Who knows.

Nick Mercer:

I'm not, I'm not mad about it.

Nick Mercer:

I just

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: But I definitely had that

Nick Mercer:

that there are electrical tunnels?

Nick Mercer:

Right.

Allie Press:

Why, why in the world he know that?

Nick Mercer:

Uh, this next scene, I feel like I need to pour one out for the

Nick Mercer:

incredible set that is The Master's lair.

Nick Mercer:

So creepy, I think just so well done.

Nick Mercer:

And it is, The Master is scary.

Nick Mercer:

He's scary.

Allie Press:

Oh yeah.

Allie Press:

Oh, I had that as a note of like, just how much blood does one have to suck to

Allie Press:

have permanently stained their mouth?

Allie Press:

That is so much!

Allie Press:

That's a lot of fucking blood!

Nick Mercer:

That's a lot of blood or his lips are really chapped.

Allie Press:

Mmmmmm, I feel like it's supposed to be the blood.

Nick Mercer:

You think it's the blood?

Nick Mercer:

I think you're probably right.

Allie Press:

It's supposed to be - uh, yeah, I think that's what I think that's

Allie Press:

the conclusion we are meant to draw.

Nick Mercer:

I'm like, do you want some Vasoline or something?

Allie Press:

Some Carmex?

Allie Press:

I don't know, is there not a pocket in that tunic you have?

Nick Mercer:

I'll even give you, I'll splurge for Burt's

Nick Mercer:

Bees for you there, buddy.

Nick Mercer:

So another time where I feel like I had to, I suspended my disbelief, which I'm

Nick Mercer:

fine because it's for Willow and I would die for Willow, but when she says- and

Nick Mercer:

I think this was a very 90s trope, 90s thing to do when Willow goes, "Oh yeah, I

Nick Mercer:

accidentally decrypted the city council's security" - What does that mean?

Nick Mercer:

I think, I think now we know enough about tech and stuff to be like, you just lumped

Nick Mercer:

some words there that doesn't actually.

Nick Mercer:

I don't know, I'm not mad about it.

Nick Mercer:

I'm not mad about it.

Nick Mercer:

I just, again, chuckled to myself.

Allie Press:

It's also one of those things that's like, if you dive

Allie Press:

too far into like, well, what was her goal that led to her decrypting

Allie Press:

the city council security system?

Allie Press:

Like what did she want to see in the city council?

Allie Press:

Like, is she some social justice warrior and she wanted to like,

Allie Press:

see what they were voting on?

Allie Press:

Like that's not a side of Willow we see, so what was your goal?

Allie Press:

How did you end up stumbling there?

Allie Press:

Or did you just

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Yeah, Willow,

Allie Press:

Right, cause she's not a bad girl.

Allie Press:

So certainly at this phase of her life, she wouldn't have been like,

Allie Press:

let me just see if I can hack this or like the same way that like some

Allie Press:

klepto would be like, let me just see if I can steal this for fun.

Allie Press:

Like, I don't know why.

Allie Press:

I just, yeah.

Allie Press:

That's why we don't dissect things.

Nick Mercer:

Yup.

Nick Mercer:

Good point.

Allie Press:

Um, oh yeah, that, that Xander quote.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, give the context for this quote, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

As a man, I'm not going to.

Allie Press:

Oh, oh yeah.

Allie Press:

So, Buffy says that he can't come along with her because he wants

Allie Press:

to, and he was like, "That's fine.

Allie Press:

I'm inadequate.

Allie Press:

That's fine.

Allie Press:

I'm less than a man."

Allie Press:

And it's like, well, you don't have super strength.

Allie Press:

So I don't know.

Allie Press:

Suck it up.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, Xander, this isn't about you right now.

Nick Mercer:

Take your toxic masculinity out of here, dude.

Nick Mercer:

I don't have time for it.

Allie Press:

I know.

Allie Press:

He lets it, he does pretty much let it go.

Allie Press:

But, uh, I also like, if you think about the things that you were

Allie Press:

sensitive about as a high schooler...

Allie Press:

If he's still whining about that into his thirties, different issue.

Allie Press:

But I can see at 16, when this girl who's like a foot shorter than you, you know.

Nick Mercer:

Oh, and to be clear, I am still a little bitch

Nick Mercer:

about - get my feelings all up in a tizzy about stupid things.

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah, yeah.

Allie Press:

Of course.

Nick Mercer:

Maybe that's why, maybe that's why I picked up on it so quickly

Nick Mercer:

is because I, I saw, Nick, you're a little bit, he's being a little bitch,

Nick Mercer:

tell him to stop being a little bitch.

Allie Press:

And it's easier to notice that stuff in others.

Allie Press:

I think we are particularly attuned to things like toxic masculinity

Allie Press:

and these kinds of things.

Allie Press:

Like, I definitely noticed a lot more, I'm going to have to spend a

Allie Press:

lot of disbelief with, with everything with Angel because just like his

Allie Press:

crypticness and lack of communication.

Allie Press:

And I'm just like, why don't you just come out and say it?

Allie Press:

But at least she recognized it.

Allie Press:

She's like, "You show up here with your cryptic wise man act.

Allie Press:

Can I at least know your name?"

Allie Press:

So I love that she is, she's not letting him off the hook.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Allie Press:

I think that's important.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I do, I do like that.

Nick Mercer:

Yes, Buffy, call him out.

Nick Mercer:

Cause he is being cryptic and weird.

Nick Mercer:

Why-

Allie Press:

Well, and I think some, we learn more about this

Allie Press:

character that he's kind of been in love with Buffy for a long time.

Allie Press:

And so I do think, cause I have this note of his contradiction of when he's like,

Allie Press:

you don't want to go down there, but then he also is warning her about The Harvest,

Allie Press:

presumably so that she can stop it.

Allie Press:

It's not like he's telling her to leave town and escape The Harvest.

Allie Press:

So that's kind of confusing.

Allie Press:

So I'm like, is it, is he testing her?

Allie Press:

But it could also just be his feelings of yeah, I think you're, you know, you're

Allie Press:

the Slayer, you should stop The Harvest.

Allie Press:

It's bad.

Allie Press:

It'd be a bad thing if The Harvest should happen, but also like,

Allie Press:

wait, oh no, don't, that's danger.

Allie Press:

I don't want you to get hurt.

Allie Press:

Don't go there.

Allie Press:

So...

Nick Mercer:

Probably a little complicated.

Allie Press:

Yeah, cause humans are complicated.

Allie Press:

You know, double think happens all the time.

Allie Press:

Yeah, I want you to be like your big, bad self, but also like, let me protect you.

Nick Mercer:

I...

Nick Mercer:

feel that.

Nick Mercer:

That makes sense to me.

Allie Press:

"Angel is so hot."

Allie Press:

Yeeaahhh he really is.

Nick Mercer:

This note that I had, this note that I wrote for myself is great.

Nick Mercer:

I want to read it to our amazing viewers.

Allie Press:

Yeah, please read it.

Nick Mercer:

I wrote, "Angel is so hot.

Nick Mercer:

And kind of a dick, and so hot."

Nick Mercer:

[Laughing] And then I wrote, "I feel like I don't understand why

Nick Mercer:

he's not being at all helpful," but we just talked about that.

Nick Mercer:

But yeah, yeah, dude is soooo sexy, ohmygod.

Allie Press:

Yeah, and there definitely is like a lot of, I guess goes back to

Allie Press:

his infatuation with Buffy, maybe it's a little Edward Cullen-ish of I have to be

Allie Press:

standoffish otherwise I will be so in love with her and I'll never leave her side.

Allie Press:

But like also we have no future, so I shouldn't get involved, but I

Allie Press:

don't want to see her get hurt....

Allie Press:

and it's just this ring of complicatedness.

Nick Mercer:

I'm so excited to fully process their confusing

Nick Mercer:

relationship with you, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

That is sweet at the core of it, but is also deeply problematic,

Nick Mercer:

especially when we look back now.

Allie Press:

Like age difference and stuff, but you know what,

Allie Press:

that's not unique to Buffy.

Allie Press:

That is a vampire thing, trope thing, and you just have to set

Allie Press:

that aside if you're going to enjoy any kind of vampire romance.

Nick Mercer:

Well, even if he were, even if he were a

Nick Mercer:

human, it would still be gross.

Nick Mercer:

Cause she's a sophomore in high school and he's like 26?

Allie Press:

Yeah, she talks about him as if he's a community college student.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I find myself needing to, needing to, if I adjust their ages across

Nick Mercer:

the board in my head, then it's fine.

Allie Press:

Yes, but I also know myself, I was crushing on older guys.

Allie Press:

I wouldn't have put up a fight if some hot community college

Allie Press:

guy was showing me attention.

Allie Press:

And again, that's not on the younger person, but still like, "not right."

Allie Press:

it's definitely one of the things of like, okay, well come see me back

Allie Press:

in five years and then that's okay.

Allie Press:

Also, you know, in high school, age gaps, like one year is

Allie Press:

so long for a high schooler.

Allie Press:

You know, that freshman year to senior year seems like an insurmountable gap.

Allie Press:

And then you're all graduated from college and stuff and

Allie Press:

four years seems like nothing.

Allie Press:

You're practically the same age.

Allie Press:

But anyway, moving on, getting back on topic, steering back towards stuff.

Allie Press:

[Nick chuckles] But still on Angel, I have a quote written down, "Awkward - 'That

Allie Press:

wasn't to be supposed to be a stumper.'" She's like, "I have a friend down there.

Allie Press:

Maybe a friend.

Allie Press:

Do you know what it's like to have a friend?"

Allie Press:

And he just kind of stares at her.

Nick Mercer:

SAVAGE!

Allie Press:

"That wasn't supposed to be a stumper."

Allie Press:

Ooooohhhhhh.

Nick Mercer:

So, I remember I have a, I have a recent, this is

Nick Mercer:

another one of those lines that I've bastardized and adopted for my own use.

Nick Mercer:

I remember during the presidential debates - Are we allowed to get political?

Nick Mercer:

Can we get, we can get political, right?

Allie Press:

Sure.

Nick Mercer:

Right, yeah, it's our podcast.

Allie Press:

It's our podcast.

Allie Press:

We can say whatever we want.

Nick Mercer:

During the presidential debates when, um, I think the

Nick Mercer:

question to Trump was like, will you condemn white supremacy or something,

Nick Mercer:

and he just straight up didn't.

Nick Mercer:

Multiple times, he didn't.

Nick Mercer:

I remember I was talking to my dad afterwards and my dad - anytime my dad

Nick Mercer:

and I are on the same page politically, something has gone way off the rails.

Nick Mercer:

Either the other side is so nuts that it has driven up - I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

Whatever.

Nick Mercer:

But I remember saying to my dad, "Dad, that question isn't

Nick Mercer:

supposed to be a stumper."

Allie & Nick:

[Laughter]

Allie Press:

Right, like that's supposed to be a gimme.

Allie Press:

Even if you're lying...

Allie Press:

lie better.

Allie Press:

Lie for, lie for longer.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

That was, yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

By any, any way you think about it, that question is supposed

Nick Mercer:

to be a pretty easy one.

Nick Mercer:

It's not supposed to be a stumper.

Allie Press:

No, that should've been a softball.

Allie Press:

Uh, no, and it's funny you talking about like, not getting political when I'm

Allie Press:

wearing my The Future is Female crewneck

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: I just

Allie Press:

And under it, you can't see it cause it's fucking cold in my

Allie Press:

house, um, I'm wearing the shirt you got me that says Slut for Justice.

Nick Mercer:

[Dramatic sigh], sigh we are all sluts for justice

Nick Mercer:

here at Tabula Rasa, B!tches.

Allie Press:

Did you see?

Allie Press:

I'm wearing my Buffy cross.

Nick Mercer:

I did saw, I did see your Buffy cross, too.

Nick Mercer:

Lookin gorg as always.

Allie Press:

Yeah, so I'm looking, my outfit is, um,

Allie Press:

what, what did the kids say?

Allie Press:

Snatched?

Nick Mercer:

[Big laughter]

Nick Mercer:

Ahhh, that was good.

Allie Press:

That wasn't supposed to be as big a joke.

Nick Mercer:

Aright, we have our episode clip, our little teaser clip.

Allie Press:

Yeah, there we go.

Allie Press:

So you wanted to talk about The Master?

Allie Press:

He's such a good bad guy.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, ugh, he is such, he's just a brilliant bad guy.

Nick Mercer:

When he says, um, he's mocking the one vampire who failed him in some way.

Nick Mercer:

I forget how he failed, but he says, he says, "Apologize

Nick Mercer:

to me," and he apologized.

Nick Mercer:

And he says, "There, that's not so bad, was it?"

Nick Mercer:

And then he stabs him in the eye!

Nick Mercer:

Ooh!

Nick Mercer:

So good.

Allie Press:

"Wait, you've got something in your eye."

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

I love, I love that.

Allie Press:

And that's kind of a, um, I think a, I don't want to say trope - archetype!

Allie Press:

In literature and stuff, the sort of genteel villain.

Allie Press:

And I love that.

Allie Press:

I always, that's like they're sinister, but they're like charming?

Allie Press:

So it throws you off balance, but that just, but their charm makes

Allie Press:

them even more evil and scary.

Allie Press:

And I love that.

Nick Mercer:

The air of properness makes them even more dangerous.

Nick Mercer:

Um, while I was, uh, Googling stuff for this episode, I found a note that,

Nick Mercer:

apparently, He Who Must Not Be Named because he's a giant dick bag, creator,

Nick Mercer:

writer, whatever, [whispers] Joss Whedon.

Nick Mercer:

I'll only say his name once this episode.

Nick Mercer:

Um, he felt bad for all of the lines The Master had where he had ss in it

Nick Mercer:

because the prosthetics of the face or whatever made it really hard.

Nick Mercer:

I just thought it was a neat little tidbit.

Allie Press:

I do, I love those tidbits.

Allie Press:

Those are always so interesting to me.

Nick Mercer:

So, uh, my next note is, uh, it's the next scene, and this is

Nick Mercer:

what we started to talk about earlier.

Nick Mercer:

They just found out their friend is for sure dead.

Nick Mercer:

Not only dead, but came back as a vampire, which is the worst thing, whatever.

Nick Mercer:

And they're not, maybe they are traumatized, but they

Nick Mercer:

just have to keep moving?

Nick Mercer:

But I'm just thinking to myself, what happens to me in an average day if I run

Nick Mercer:

out of coffee creamer, [Chuckles] and then compare that to if my friend just died!

Allie Press:

Okay, but I see it as they're in shock.

Allie Press:

So I don't think they know how to process that he's like gone

Allie Press:

because physically he's still there.

Allie Press:

He still has, has his face.

Allie Press:

He still has his memories.

Allie Press:

Um, and that comes back later when they're saddling up to head to The Bronze,

Allie Press:

when he's like "And Jesse's in there."

Allie Press:

And Giles has to go, "That is not Jesse.

Allie Press:

Your friend is dead.

Allie Press:

When you go in there, that is not your friend.

Allie Press:

That is the monster that killed him wearing his face."

Allie Press:

Or something like that.

Allie Press:

Giles says it better than I do when I'm paraphrasing.

Allie Press:

But, I do think that's understandable and I do think there is a certain

Allie Press:

amount of where you, you have to have some levity or like...

Allie Press:

There's certain playwrights that have this, the characters feel

Allie Press:

strongly, but they don't feel deeply.

Allie Press:

Like if you think of it wide versus vertical or something like that.

Allie Press:

Because think about it, like, us knowing, and again, because of our sensibilities

Allie Press:

in terms of political and social and stuff like that, we know about trauma.

Allie Press:

We know what trauma does to people.

Allie Press:

We know the horrors of PTSD and those kinds of things.

Allie Press:

Is that the show you want to watch where they're all acting like realistically?

Nick Mercer:

No, that sounds not entertaining at all.

Allie Press:

Not in the first season.

Allie Press:

I don't, I don't think I want to see them actually traumatized.

Allie Press:

That would, that'd be kind of awful.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, that would be sad.

Allie Press:

I mean, later we said that once we've, once we've sat with

Allie Press:

these characters for a while and then, and then we get into deeper storylines

Allie Press:

and that kind of thing, but...

Allie Press:

And that kind of plays into that whole, you can't un-know things,

Allie Press:

so why she could never actually stop being the Slayer because it's

Allie Press:

like, well, I'm already traumatized.

Allie Press:

I know these things.

Allie Press:

I can't just go lalala this doesn't happen.

Allie Press:

You know, you'd have to wipe your memory or some kinda thing.

Nick Mercer:

They feel strongly, not deeply.

Nick Mercer:

I really like that.

Allie Press:

Yeah, that's what, I had a professor tell me that

Allie Press:

about , uh, Oscar Wilde characters.

Allie Press:

Like they get upset about things, but it doesn't, it doesn't go that

Allie Press:

deep, everything's surface level.

Nick Mercer:

Neato.

Nick Mercer:

Well, excited to explore more.

Allie Press:

I like Giles's cardigan.

Allie Press:

Cute.

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, Giles is not only wearing a great cardigan.

Nick Mercer:

I'm wearing a cardigan right now, listener friends who can't - god, I love cardigans.

Nick Mercer:

Giles also has a very sensible pinky ring

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: Cardigans are delightful.

- Nick Mercer:

which I appreciate.

Allie Press:

So I see in your notes, you're jumping towards her sneaking out

Allie Press:

to saddle up to go fight The Harvest.

Allie Press:

Uh, but you're skipping over the amazing scene in the computer lab where

Allie Press:

we meet Harmony for the first time!

Allie Press:

She's not even introduced with her name, but, um, Willow is researching

Allie Press:

earthquakes and shit, and Cordelia is working on a programming thing.

Allie Press:

And she starts talking about Buffy and like the stuff before.

Allie Press:

And Willow's like, "She's not a psycho."

Allie Press:

And possibly my favorite line of this episode, "Excuse me, who

Allie Press:

gave you permission to exist?"

Allie Press:

[Nick laughing] Cordelia Chase.

Nick Mercer:

You are such a bitch.

Nick Mercer:

I love you!

Allie Press:

I LOVE her!

Allie Press:

I do, I love her.

Allie Press:

Um, and then I do love Willow's little slight back when Cordelia's

Allie Press:

like, okay, then we end run, or we, where do we submit?

Allie Press:

And then Willow goes, "Deliver."

Allie Press:

And so she finds the D-E-L key and she deletes her whole program.

Allie Press:

Ha ha ha haaaaa.

Nick Mercer:

So good.

Nick Mercer:

And I love that Willow probably, I, I don't know, but I can't imagine

Nick Mercer:

if they had been shit talking Willow in front of her she'd do that.

Nick Mercer:

Willow sabotaged Cordelia and her stupid project because they were

Nick Mercer:

talking shit about Willow's friend.

Allie Press:

I agree.

Allie Press:

I agree.

Allie Press:

Yeah, she doesn't stand up for herself, but like you came at my friend.

Allie Press:

Who, by the way, is trying to save - um - the world, so.

Nick Mercer:

Right, right.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Take several seats, Ms.

Nick Mercer:

Chase.

Nick Mercer:

But also keep it up with your iconic lines because they're great.

Allie Press:

Yes, exactly.

Allie Press:

Like leave, but like, don't leave.

Allie Press:

Just like stay forever.

Allie Press:

She, over the course, and maybe once we're through all seven seasons, maybe

Allie Press:

we'll continue with a side Angel thing.

Allie Press:

Cause just Cordelia Chase's journey is fucking amazing.

Nick Mercer:

Ugh it's so goood.

Allie Press:

Shout out to Charisma Carpenter.

Allie Press:

You're a goddess.

Allie Press:

I love you.

Allie Press:

Uh, you're more beautiful every day.

Nick Mercer:

You're more beautiful than Cinderella.

Nick Mercer:

You have a face like sunshine, and you smell like pine needles.

Nick Mercer:

Um, maybe Charisma Carpenter will join us for an episode.

Nick Mercer:

Let's manifest it.

Allie Press:

[Whispers] I love yoouu.

Allie Press:

And then she can bring her bestie Julie Benz because

Allie Press:

apparently they're super close.

Nick Mercer:

We have a whole plan now.

Nick Mercer:

That's great.

Allie Press:

I have all the plans.

Allie Press:

Are you kidding me?

Nick Mercer:

Great.

Allie Press:

Oh, random thing, I just love when title sequence

Allie Press:

stuff pops up in the episode.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah!

Nick Mercer:

We see one of em!

Allie Press:

Oh, we see a bunch of them.

Allie Press:

There's the hand shooting [out], there's them walking out of the

Allie Press:

library, there's the moon rising.

Allie Press:

There's a lot of good ones in this, um, in this one.

Nick Mercer:

There's the, uh, shutting the door on the, the big

Nick Mercer:

metal door when they're trying to escape from Jesse and them.

Allie Press:

Yeah, the hand grabbing?

Allie Press:

I love that.

Allie Press:

Um, a great quote when they encounter Jesse, "I can hear

Allie Press:

the worms in the earth."

Allie Press:

Xander's "That's a plus."

Nick Mercer:

Yeah [laughing].

Nick Mercer:

"That's a plus."

Nick Mercer:

Xander, you're so awkward.

Nick Mercer:

I love you.

Allie Press:

It's just like I don't know what you're supposed

Allie Press:

to say to that, but ok...

Nick Mercer:

I really liked this next scene between Buffy and her mom.

Allie Press:

Oh yeah.

Allie Press:

Uh, poor Joyce.

Allie Press:

I have a big note, I have a big asterix on that, of like, poor Joyce.

Allie Press:

Because what...

Allie Press:

what would Buffy even say to her?

Allie Press:

Like other than, other than telling the truth.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, Joyce makes, into season, further into season one

Nick Mercer:

and then into season two, I start having serious issues with some

Nick Mercer:

of the choices that Joyce makes.

Nick Mercer:

But this one, yeah, she's right.

Nick Mercer:

If my daughter's new principal just called me that she was skipping

Nick Mercer:

school and now she's trying...

Allie Press:

Right!

Nick Mercer:

Absolutely not you're going out!

Allie Press:

Right.

Nick Mercer:

Or you're not going - no!

Nick Mercer:

Not a chance.

Allie Press:

Right, like, what else would it, what else would you say?

Allie Press:

And then she, in a very excellent parenting move, she says, "If

Allie Press:

you want to stay up here and sulk I won't hold it against you."

Allie Press:

Uh-plause!

Allie Press:

Mom!

Allie Press:

Well, well handled.

Allie Press:

And she's like, "But, if you want to come down and have some

Allie Press:

dinner, I'll make us some dinner."

Allie Press:

I love that.

Allie Press:

That's such a sweet, she's just the best, the best mom.

Allie Press:

But then it's also so hard on Buffy cause what is she supposed to do?

Allie Press:

Not go save the world?

Nick Mercer:

Right.

Allie Press:

Like, oh, okay, I'm grounded.

Allie Press:

Guess I won't...go kill vampires.

Nick Mercer:

And that line from Buffy or from her mom, I think,

Nick Mercer:

I, yeah, I do have it here.

Nick Mercer:

Um, Buffy goes, "This is really, really important."

Nick Mercer:

And her mom says, "I know, if you don't go out, it'll be the end of the world."

Nick Mercer:

And the audience is like, yes!

Allie Press:

YES!

Nick Mercer:

It will be!

Allie Press:

Dramatic irony.

Nick Mercer:

But is that, is that not so, I mean, take the fact that it's actually

Nick Mercer:

will be the end of the world out of it.

Nick Mercer:

That feeling that my parent doesn't get it.

Nick Mercer:

This is really important.

Nick Mercer:

I have to, I have to go to this party or this, whatever.

Nick Mercer:

I can really relate to that feeling of my parents just not getting it.

Allie Press:

Right.

Allie Press:

Oh, absolutely.

Allie Press:

And there's, everything, it does feel like the end of the world.

Allie Press:

Like, especially in middle school and also in high school and stuff,

Allie Press:

everything feels just like a big deal.

Allie Press:

Sometimes I miss school because everything felt like a thing, you know?

Allie Press:

Like there was someone there to see your outfit and people to talk

Allie Press:

about your crushes with and...

Allie Press:

I don't know.

Allie Press:

There were school dances.

Allie Press:

There were these events that just felt like such a big fucking deal.

Allie Press:

And they were!

Allie Press:

To us, at that time, they were big deals.

Allie Press:

And that kind of pulls into that metaphor - I mean, it's very real to

Allie Press:

Buffy in the literal context, but also that, like, metaphorical side of Buffy.

Nick Mercer:

Uh.

Nick Mercer:

Well done writers, well done.

Nick Mercer:

Um, as she's preparing for, she says, sorry, mom, going anyways, peace out.

Nick Mercer:

She opens the trunk and there's the, whatever girly stuff in

Nick Mercer:

the top that she takes out.

Allie Press:

Oh, I love that, I love that juxtaposition.

Allie Press:

Ah, what a great reveal.

Allie Press:

All of her like dolls and, I don't know, lacey things and whatever pink stuff, like

Allie Press:

you said, girly stuff on the top tray.

Nick Mercer:

How indicative of Buffy as the character.

Nick Mercer:

She's one way on the outside, then you dig a little deeper...

Allie Press:

And it's all stakes and communion wafers.

Nick Mercer:

There are for sure communion wafers.

Allie Press:

Oh yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Which, uhhh...

Allie Press:

I mean, they're holy, they're blessed.

Allie Press:

If holy water works, there's no reason...

Nick Mercer:

Ooohhhhhh...

Allie Press:

...communion wafers shouldn't work.

Nick Mercer:

That just occurred to me.

Nick Mercer:

I thought that was just an LOL let's throw religious shit in here as the

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: I mean, it never comes up.

Nick Mercer:

It's never used.

Nick Mercer:

Garlic is in it, too.

Nick Mercer:

And I don't think garlic comes up as another determinant to vampires.

Allie Press:

No, I mean, they, they list it when Xander's like, okay, so what else?

Allie Press:

Stake, stake through the heart, beheadings, what else?

Allie Press:

Garlic, you know.

Allie Press:

Which again, why garlic?

Allie Press:

I understand the religious stuff.

Allie Press:

But why garlic?

Allie Press:

That never comes up, either.

Allie Press:

Um, but they do talk about hallowed ground.

Allie Press:

Um, like that's a thing, hallowed ground and like cemeteries and stuff like that.

Allie Press:

So, but also like, but they hang out in cemeteries.

Allie Press:

So are mausoleums not...?

Allie Press:

Okay, well, that's a, that's a plot hole.

Allie Press:

Let's not pick at that scab.

Allie Press:

[Nick Laughs]

Allie Press:

Let's not pull that thread.

Nick Mercer:

Put it in the basement!

Nick Mercer:

Put in the basement.

Allie Press:

Yeah, let's not pull that thread.

Allie Press:

Ooh, say that next note after the communion bread.

Allie Press:

Cause I have an answer to that.

Nick Mercer:

So, okay.

Nick Mercer:

So the next scene is they're in The Bronze.

Nick Mercer:

Our superheroes are headed to The Bronze, but Jesse is there already.

Nick Mercer:

And there's this, in the first episode we saw human Jesse try

Nick Mercer:

and dance with Cordelia and she immediately brushed him off.

Nick Mercer:

And this time as a vampire, he tries again.

Nick Mercer:

But naturally, he doesn't have a soul, he's a lot more forward.

Nick Mercer:

He kind of just goes up and presses himself against her and starts dancing.

Nick Mercer:

And she's like, nope, no, I'm not.

Nick Mercer:

And then he says, shut up.

Nick Mercer:

And she says, okay, fine, one dance.

Nick Mercer:

And I, it sounds like you might have a, have a good answer for it.

Allie Press:

I do.

Nick Mercer:

But it didn't sit right with me because I don't love, I'm

Nick Mercer:

trying to see what, what message they're trying to send by him

Nick Mercer:

having success by being mean to her.

Allie Press:

So, first of all, you're exaggerating a little bit with

Allie Press:

him, like pressing up against her.

Allie Press:

He, he is, I mean, he's standing close, but he does grab her hand

Allie Press:

and pull her to the dance floor.

Allie Press:

It's not like he immediately shoves his crotch on her crotch.

Nick Mercer:

Well, no, I didn't mean that...

Allie Press:

I know, but like, it's, you know, words have meaning.

Nick Mercer:

It is presumptive.

Nick Mercer:

He is being very presumptuous.

Allie Press:

Yes, he's being, he's being assertive.

Allie Press:

And as far as the shut up, Cordelia, who always comes from a place

Allie Press:

of power, that is the kind of attitude she would, like, respect.

Allie Press:

Or maybe not respect, but would respond to because someone who

Allie Press:

comes at a girl like her with weaker energy, she's not gonna respond.

Allie Press:

She's gonna step all over you.

Allie Press:

And also this goes to the, you know, why, why is Angelus

Allie Press:

hotter than Angel and stuff?

Allie Press:

Because confidence is sexy.

Allie Press:

What did he lack?

Allie Press:

He was a shy, awkward nerd.

Allie Press:

So when he comes at her like, of course you want to dance with me or like, I'm

Allie Press:

not going to take no for an answer...

Allie Press:

That is something that - C'mon, every girl loves a bad boy.

Allie Press:

It's not a good thing.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

But like, we have that thing, I'm not saying everybody,

Allie Press:

but people like a bad boy.

Allie Press:

Now, it does kind of turn that corner when he is about to kill her.

Allie Press:

Cause he does have some, like, I wanted to write down the language,

Allie Press:

but it's stuff like, I don't know, she's trying to get him off her.

Allie Press:

He said

Nick Mercer:

something like"Thiss one is mine" or, and then, and then

Nick Mercer:

there's another line he's like, you're making this harder than it...

Nick Mercer:

like something like that.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

And again, if we're, you know, a vampire bite is very sexual.

Allie Press:

So then when he is literally on top of her and trying to force

Allie Press:

himself on her, that is very rapey.

Allie Press:

That turns the corner.

Allie Press:

But as far as him like approaching her and the dance and stuff, I

Allie Press:

think that is something that, that Cordelia Chase would respond to.

Nick Mercer:

Ahhhh...Well and, like, she did respond to it.

Allie Press:

Right.

Nick Mercer:

She did dance with him.

Nick Mercer:

So I guess it worked out, but I just don't love that, I don't know, some

Nick Mercer:

teenage dude might be watching this and be like, oh, well I just have to tell

Nick Mercer:

the girl who's telling me "No, I don't want to dance with you" to shut up.

Nick Mercer:

And then she'll...

Allie Press:

But it's also, it's not like he yelled at her.

Allie Press:

It was - Cause tone, cause tone affects things, too.

Allie Press:

Like, I, I don't, [pensive sigh] there's a way to be, I don't want to say playful.

Allie Press:

Playful is not quite the right word.

Allie Press:

And I'm not saying you should tell people to shut up.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, you're saying he wasn't, yeah, you didn't feel like there

Nick Mercer:

were lines crossed in that particular

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: He didn't come over and say,

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

So, backtracking a teeny bit, um, Cordelia's quote.

Allie Press:

"When I go shopping, I have to have the most expensive thing.

Allie Press:

Not because it's expensive, but because it costs more."

Allie Press:

I actually love this line because I actually think it makes perfect sense.

Nick Mercer:

It doesn't make any sense and you're wrong.

Allie Press:

Yes, it does!

Allie Press:

Because it's not like expense as in monetary, as in like the number of

Allie Press:

dollars, but cost as in the effort that, I had to put in more effort to get this.

Allie Press:

Versus I have more dollars than you do.

Nick Mercer:

I don't think that that's what Cordelia meant.

Allie Press:

I don't quite necessarily think she's thinking of

Allie Press:

it deep either, but I don't know.

Allie Press:

I've always heard that line and go, like, I don't know.

Allie Press:

It kind of makes sense to me.

Nick Mercer:

I love that, I love later on in that exchange where

Nick Mercer:

she's, you know, she's been the only one in this little aside that's been

Nick Mercer:

talking and then one of the other girls she's with tries to get in.

Allie Press:

"Uh, excuse me, Ms.

Allie Press:

Motormouth, can I get a word in?"

Nick Mercer:

[Nick laughing] Oh, Cordelia.

Nick Mercer:

Ah, you're so good.

Allie Press:

"Ms.

Allie Press:

Motormouth..."

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Love that.

Allie Press:

Also, Cordelia Chase in that scene before she gets approached by Jesse, when

Allie Press:

they're just dancing to like the upbeat song, she defined cool dancing for me.

Nick Mercer:

Hmmm.

Nick Mercer:

She is a cool dancer.

Nick Mercer:

She's sexy too.

Allie Press:

Yup.

Allie Press:

Yup.

Allie Press:

I mean, she was cast for a reason.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Get it, Cordelia.

Nick Mercer:

I want to be like you when I grow up.

Allie Press:

Cordelia screams like Sailor Moon.

Allie Press:

I don't remember if you watched Sailor Moon, but when she's grabbed by Luke,

Allie Press:

that's exactly what that sounds like.

Nick Mercer:

That is funny.

Nick Mercer:

I haven't paid attention to that.

Allie Press:

Um, the, "You didn't think I'd miss this, did you?"

Allie Press:

When, uh, Buffy appears on the balcony , that always rings in my head because that,

Allie Press:

I don't know if you remember the DVD box sets, when you would select from the, from

Allie Press:

the menu, you would select the episode, it would play a quote from that episode.

Allie Press:

And so for this episode, that was the quote.

Allie Press:

" You didn't think I had missed this, did you?"

Allie Press:

And then the episode would start.

Nick Mercer:

That's so funny.

Nick Mercer:

A call back to the title screen of sorts.

Allie Press:

Yeah, exactly.

Nick Mercer:

I love the, I think this is an iconic Buffy line.

Nick Mercer:

Right before she goes to kill Luke, she goes, "Here's

Nick Mercer:

something you forgot about, too.

Nick Mercer:

Sunrise."

Nick Mercer:

Finish the quote, Allie.

Allie Press:

[Allie mockingly imitates Luke's painful cries.]

Allie Press:

"It's in about nine hours, moron."

Nick Mercer:

[Laughing] Luke, you're so dumb.

Allie Press:

I do have that moment when he...And I don't know, do

Allie Press:

vampires have those kinds of moments where you react before your

Allie Press:

actual physical stimulus is there?

Allie Press:

But he's like, ah, and then he like actually has that moment of wait...

Allie Press:

I don't hurt.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

You're stupid.

Nick Mercer:

Do you feel...

Nick Mercer:

there's that TikTok sound right now going around that's like, "Do you feel...

Nick Mercer:

stupid?

Nick Mercer:

Do you feel a little absurd?"

Allie Press:

That is Luke.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, as they, as everybody's fleeing The Bronze,

Nick Mercer:

Buffy has saved the day - congrats, Buffy - and then we see Angel.

Nick Mercer:

And I know jury's still out, he's still making some decisions, probably

Nick Mercer:

feeling a lot of big feelings himself.

Nick Mercer:

But, like, thanks for the help, dude.

Nick Mercer:

Really appreciate it.

Nick Mercer:

Could've used you here.

Allie Press:

Well...did they need him?

Nick Mercer:

Well, no, they weren't, you know, they worked it out.

Nick Mercer:

I think Xander handled himself particularly

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: Xander handled

Nick Mercer:

Like he didn't mean to kill his friend, but

Nick Mercer:

he went through a lot of stuff

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: [Whispering] And

Nick Mercer:

It would not have actually killed him.

Nick Mercer:

Um, cause later it does come up, like, aiming, but at least in this,

Nick Mercer:

they were not very particular.

Nick Mercer:

That stake would not have dusted him.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, that stake in the collarbone is not gonna do much.

Allie Press:

Yeah, exactly.

Allie Press:

That would have hit, like, his breastbone, would not have gone in.

Allie Press:

Um, but see, and this is a different, maybe I'm going to be the optimist

Allie Press:

for this show because the way I saw Angel with like the damn she did it.

Allie Press:

He came, but wasn't going to step in if he wasn't needed.

Allie Press:

I saw

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Oooooohhhhhh

Allie Press:

I saw that as like him letting her do her thing and like, yeah,

Allie Press:

I'm not going to let The Harvest happen.

Allie Press:

If it looks like she's - like, if Luke

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Allie, I like that more.

Allie Press:

I like that a lot.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

So I saw that as him holding back and letting her be a badass woman

Allie Press:

and being like, I'm impressed, but

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: He was ready.

Allie Press:

He could've if he needed, but not needed.

Allie Press:

Right.

Allie Press:

Exactly.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

You're right.

Nick Mercer:

I think you're right!

Allie Press:

He was still keeping tabs and keeping an eye.

Allie Press:

He showed up.

Nick Mercer:

Yup.

Allie Press:

That wasn't him like later being like, oh, well

Allie Press:

today, tomorrow still came.

Allie Press:

So I guess she won.

Nick Mercer:

Yup.

Nick Mercer:

Yup.

Allie Press:

That's how I saw it.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, he was, he was ready.

Nick Mercer:

He was more active and ready to be helpful if need be.

Nick Mercer:

I like the way you think, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

I really do.

Allie Press:

Well, well, I am still Team Angel, so.

Allie Press:

I know there's some, some Team Spike fans out there, but

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Yeah, I was, we'll, we'll

Allie Press:

The, uh, last, this gets into our favorite quotes here a little bit.

Allie Press:

And you can see, what is my last quote?

Nick Mercer:

Allie is holding her notes up to the camera right now.

Nick Mercer:

So I see, we both have it at the same time.

Nick Mercer:

Allie, we'll say it at the same time.

Nick Mercer:

Ready?

Nick Mercer:

1, 2, 3!

Allie & Nick:

"The earth is doomed."

Nick Mercer:

Oh, Giles.

Allie Press:

Uh, I love that.

Allie Press:

"Maybe I could still get kicked out of school."

Allie Press:

That whole last conversation is fantastic where they're like, oh

Allie Press:

yeah, you could blow something up.

Allie Press:

They really frown on that.

Nick Mercer:

[Nick laughs] Um, what of your, what are some other

Nick Mercer:

quotes, have we missed any of your other favorite quotes so far, Allie?

Allie Press:

Oh yeah, so what I starred as potentially my favorite quote because it's

Allie Press:

just, oh, it's so epic in the way that like only The Master could deliver it.

Allie Press:

Um, "Tonight I shall walk the earth and the stars themselves will hide."

Nick Mercer:

That is such a good line, isn't it?

Allie Press:

Ooh!

Allie Press:

Okaaay!

Nick Mercer:

Poetic and scary.

Nick Mercer:

Okay.

Allie Press:

I see you, I see you, bad guy.

Nick Mercer:

[Nick chuckles] Did you, did you have a degree in English?

Nick Mercer:

You do, don't you?

Allie Press:

Look at you!

Nick Mercer:

That was nice.

Allie Press:

You speak fancy like you're educated.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I wrote down one of Giles's lines that still resonates

Nick Mercer:

with me to this day, as he is telling Willow how she can be helpful.

Nick Mercer:

Um, he is talking about how he's fuzzy on some of the details about

Nick Mercer:

The Harvest, and he says, "I'm a bit fuzzy, however, on the details.

Nick Mercer:

Maybe you can wrestle some information out of this dreaded machine."

Nick Mercer:

And that aversion to computers, I'm, I just get it.

Allie Press:

Hits you on a personal level?

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, it does.

Allie Press:

That's funny because I pulled out the quote right after

Allie Press:

that, which is, "That was a bit...

Allie Press:

British, wasn't it?"

Nick Mercer:

[Laughs] Yes, it was, and we love you for it.

Allie Press:

Just a little, Giles, just a little.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, I think those are all my quotes.

Nick Mercer:

I think we hit them as we went through, Allie.

Allie Press:

Yeah, for the most part.

Allie Press:

Uh, " She walks free when I should be drinking her heart's blood?"

Allie Press:

And I just had a moment of...

Allie Press:

that's how I feel about my ex.

Nick Mercer:

[Nick laughing]

Allie Press:

Like you're just out there walking around, like

Allie Press:

not paying for your crimes?

Nick Mercer:

THE audacity.

Allie Press:

The AUDACITY.

Nick Mercer:

The audacity.

Allie Press:

The audacity.

Allie Press:

When I should be drinking your heart's blood.

Allie Press:

Um, Xander's, "I don't like vampires.

Allie Press:

I'm going to take a stand and say, they're not good."

Allie Press:

I love that.

Nick Mercer:

Well done.

Nick Mercer:

Good, good move, Xander.

Nick Mercer:

Take that stand.

Nick Mercer:

I have, uh, "That's the Buffy Summers I want in my school, sensible

Nick Mercer:

girl with her feet on the ground."

Allie Press:

Aww, Principal Flutie.

Nick Mercer:

Ch-koo!

Allie Press:

Yup!

Allie Press:

Haha

Nick Mercer:

She jumps right up, clears the fence.

Allie Press:

Yeah, I am, I am a sucker for some dramatic timing.

Allie Press:

I love that.

Allie Press:

Aw, Principal Flutie.

Nick Mercer:

I love Principal Flutie.

Nick Mercer:

You'll learn more viewers, listeners!

Allie Press:

You'll leaarrn.

Allie Press:

He is, he's a good egg.

Allie Press:

He's trying so hard.

Nick Mercer:

He is.

Nick Mercer:

He cares.

Allie Press:

Um, I have one from Luke, " Actually, there is cause for

Allie Press:

alarm, it just won't do you any good."

Allie Press:

Mmm.

Allie Press:

Sass.

Nick Mercer:

And, and that timing too, it's right as he's talking, he gets like

Nick Mercer:

a spotlight on his face so as he says it will do you no cause, you no, whatever,

Nick Mercer:

uh, you see his face for the first time.

Nick Mercer:

Or, I guess the people in The Bronze see his face for the first time.

Nick Mercer:

That's another good timing.

Allie Press:

Yuup.

Allie Press:

That's all my quotes.

Nick Mercer:

What do you think for the moral of the story?

Nick Mercer:

What's the moral of this episode?

Nick Mercer:

I have one, but if you don't agree, you can give your own.

Allie Press:

I think there might be kind of a corny one in teamwork or

Allie Press:

friendship or that kind of thing.

Allie Press:

Because that's kind of her, I mean, yes, save the world.

Allie Press:

Like that would be bad and all that, but really her big, Buffy's big motivation for

Allie Press:

jumping back in the saddle is these new friends or these new potential friends.

Allie Press:

These look like people who seem to care about me and heard that

Allie Press:

I say I'm a Slayer and didn't run away and are sticking around.

Allie Press:

They come back the next day to school.

Allie Press:

After they all narrowly escaped vampires, they still all gather in

Allie Press:

the library the next day, rather than avoiding her, calling her crazy.

Allie Press:

I mean, clearly these aren't that kind of people, which is why they become friends.

Allie Press:

But, you know, she doesn't know, that's not how other people would've reacted.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, it's powerful.

Nick Mercer:

And you know, she, I think, I think at one point they're talking about where

Nick Mercer:

are they going to go for The Harvest, oh who knows or whatever, and it's

Nick Mercer:

Xander who says, Jesse is going to The Bronze, I guarantee you he's going.

Nick Mercer:

So not only are there all of these great notes about how probably healing it is

Nick Mercer:

for Buffy to have a group of friends and all of this stuff, but they literally

Nick Mercer:

substantively help her, which is cool!

Nick Mercer:

They're just normies.

Allie Press:

Well, and it's, um, Willow who finds - well, Xander, we talked

Allie Press:

about, knows about the electrical tunnels.

Allie Press:

Willow who finds the city blueprints, which we see go under the mausoleum and

Allie Press:

that's how Buffy is able to be like, oh, the entrance is in the mausoleum.

Allie Press:

And then it's Giles who finds out about The Harvest and does the

Allie Press:

research and finds out about the vessel so she knows who to attack.

Allie Press:

So it really is a team effort.

Allie Press:

Go team.

Nick Mercer:

Teamwork really does make the dream work.

Nick Mercer:

The moral that I thought might apply, and I think there can probably be

Nick Mercer:

multiple lessons learned from this, but, um, I wrote that life goes on.

Nick Mercer:

And what I mean by that is like how we talked about they found out their friend

Nick Mercer:

just died this horrible death then came back as a vampire, like life goes on.

Nick Mercer:

And at the end of the episode, when we see everybody trying to rationalize

Nick Mercer:

what happened the night before.

Nick Mercer:

And they have that exchange about how Buffy and Giles are basically

Nick Mercer:

like, yeah, they're going to do that.

Nick Mercer:

They're going to rationalize what they can and forget what they can't

Nick Mercer:

and whatever, off to the next thing, which is a theme I think we'll see.

Allie Press:

Oh yeah.

Allie Press:

Well, and there's that, there's that great Cordelia moment where she's like, "And

Allie Press:

Buffy like knew them, which was so weird."

Allie Press:

And her friend's like, "Wow, I wish I'd been there."

Allie Press:

And she's like, "You should have been there."

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, Cordelia has managed to make it fit

Nick Mercer:

whatever her preconceived, right?

Allie Press:

Oh yeah!

Allie Press:

Well, cause, cause it's a story.

Allie Press:

Everybody loves a good story and it's definitely going to be one of

Allie Press:

those, like, where-were-you moments.

Allie Press:

There's a lot, we find out that a lot of those happen in Sunnydale, which I think

Allie Press:

comes to you kind of get used, you can get used to anything, even if it's trauma.

Allie Press:

Because again, everything is subjective.

Allie Press:

So Sunnydale High ends up having a very high mortality rate.

Allie Press:

And that's just like, I don't know.

Allie Press:

Did, was, did not a lot of people die at your high school?

Allie Press:

That's how my high school was.

Nick Mercer:

Speaks to the resilience of the human condition.

Allie Press:

You don't, you don't know what you don't know or like you

Allie Press:

don't know what's - you kind of grow up assuming like, oh, well this is

Allie Press:

what it's like for everybody, right?

Nick Mercer:

Normal is kind of a moving point for people.

Allie Press:

Absolutely.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Normal's definitely subjective or relative or whatever.

Nick Mercer:

I like the way you think.

Nick Mercer:

Do you want to wrap this episode up, Allie?

Allie Press:

Yeah, Miss Buttercup, let's wrap this motha up.

Allie Press:

Apparently, Joss Whedon wanted to include Eric Balfour, Jesse, in the opening

Allie Press:

credits to shock people when he died, but he couldn't because of funding.

Allie Press:

Iiiiiinteresting.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, sorry, I didn't, I missed that one.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, isn't that nifty?

Nick Mercer:

He wanted to, so in the opening credits, he wanted Jesse's character featured

Nick Mercer:

as one of the, you know, whatever so that people would be like, what?

Nick Mercer:

He already killed off a main character?

Allie Press:

Changing your title sequence is very expensive.

Allie Press:

So if you ever are watching

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: I didn't know that!

Allie Press:

It is.

Allie Press:

Like, just editing.

Allie Press:

Everything's fucking expensive.

Allie Press:

Everything is time.

Allie Press:

Everything is money.

Allie Press:

Things that look simple are not.

Allie Press:

Um, so if you ever, if you're ever watching a series and they do things

Allie Press:

like changing up their title sequence more than just like per season, that's

Allie Press:

how you know they're doing really well.

Allie Press:

Like the Psych series, um, a few seasons, and actually not even that late

Allie Press:

in, they start changing up the title sequence, or the, um, the theme song.

Allie Press:

So like there's one that has to do with like an acapella group,

Allie Press:

so they have Boys II Men do an acapella version of the thing.

Allie Press:

And there's one that movies kind of play into it, so they do kind of

Allie Press:

like an old timey, noir kind of feel.

Allie Press:

They changed up their titles sequence a lot.

Allie Press:

And you're like, okay, this was a massive, successful show, which I

Allie Press:

knew that it was, but that's, it is huge for them to do things like that.

Nick Mercer:

Nifty.

Nick Mercer:

You got the insider scoop here, folks.

Allie Press:

Might be a little inside baseball for some people, but I like it.

Nick Mercer:

I didn't know that.

Nick Mercer:

That's neat.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Well, I think that about does it for this episode.

Nick Mercer:

Thank you so much for joining us and we hope you'll join us again

Nick Mercer:

for our next episode where we'll discuss season one, episode three,

Nick Mercer:

If you are just too excited to wait until our next episode to chat, send us

Nick Mercer:

an email at tabularasabpod@gmail.com.

Nick Mercer:

And you can also say hello to us on Twitter, Instagram, or

Nick Mercer:

Facebook at @tabularasabpod.

Allie Press:

I love that we already have all those socials.

Allie Press:

Eeee!

Allie Press:

And if you just want to follow me - cause, like, ew Nick - then you can follow

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Fair, I feel the same way.

Allie Press:

You can find Allie Press on all the social medias.

Allie Press:

@Daughterpick on Twitter and Instagram.

Allie Press:

That's DAU-GHT-ER-PICK.

Allie Press:

And you can follow me on TikTok @futureblackcat.

Allie Press:

And last but not least, if you would like to support me as an artist,

Allie Press:

throw a few bucks my way, you can go to BuyMeACoffee.com/AlliePress.

Allie Press:

A-L-L-I-E P-R-E-S-S.

Nick Mercer:

All social media handles are in the description.

Nick Mercer:

Y'all better give your bank accounts to Allie because she's perfect.

Nick Mercer:

And Allie, I hope you make some incredibly proud choices.

Allie Press:

Thank you, Nicholas.

Allie Press:

Uh, you are a precious gift and so are all of you listeners.

Allie Press:

Until next time.

Nick Mercer:

Bye.

Outro Music:

[Outro Music slowly fades in.]

Allie Press:

Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Allie Press:

is hosted by Allie Press and Nick Mercer with music by InflatonCult,

Allie Press:

artwork by Charlotte Fleming Design, and consultation by Evo Terra.

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About the Podcast

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Tabula Rasa, B!tches!: A Buffy Rewatch Show

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Nick Mercer

Nick Mercer

Nick Mercer (he/him) works as a fundraiser for a nonprofit organization. He was introduced to Buffy by his illustrious co-host when they became fast friends over the summers in elementary school. Nick credits Buffy for his early passion for social justice.

When not cheering on our favorite Sunnydale warriors in their fights against the supernatural, Nick enjoys cooking and engaging in political advocacy in his local community. Nick's favorite quote from Buffy is, "You have to take care of each other. You have to be strong. Dawn, the hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Be brave."

Nick lives in South Carolina with his perfect puggle, Joseph.
Profile picture for Allie Press

Allie Press

Allie Press (she/her) is a Maryland-born actor with aspirations for all kinds of film. Her goal is to play Felicia Hardy for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Allie earned her BFA in Acting from Towson University in 2016.

Allie began watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer during its original airing at just three years old. She's taken many of Buffy's lessons to heart - perhaps none more so than Buffy's reflection that "fortune favors the brave." When not rewatching Buffy or exchanging notes with her dear co-host, you can find Allie with one of her many other hats - maybe as a costume designer, nanny, stage manager, or podcast production assistant with Simpler Media.

Allie currently lives in Atlanta with her partner and puppy. Connect with Allie on Instagram at @daughterpick or TikTok at @futureblackcat, and support her work as an artist at buymeacoffee.com/alliepress.