Episode 105

Never Kill a Boy on the First Date

In episode 105 of Tabula Rasa, B!tches!, Allie and Nick discuss season one, episode five of Buffy, “Never Kill a Boy on the First Date.” Buffy is thrilled to be receiving attention from Owen, a brooding cutie who has a love both for poetry and for danger. In the course of trying to thwart the prophecy that foretells the coming of the Anointed One, Buffy has to learn the painful lesson that not everyone will be able to partake in the dangerous world that is dating the Slayer.

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Transcript
Intro Music:

[Intro Music]

Allie and Nick:

Welcome to Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Intro Music:

[Intro Music]

Allie Press:

Hello, hello!

Nick Mercer:

Hello.

Allie Press:

My name is Allie.

Nick Mercer:

And I'm Nick.

Allie Press:

And welcome to season one, episode five of Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Allie Press:

We are so glad to have you.

Nick Mercer:

In Tabula Rasa, B!tches, you'll listen as two decades-long

Nick Mercer:

friends jump back into the world of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and relive

Nick Mercer:

the show that brought them close together and taught them so many of

Nick Mercer:

the values they still cherish today.

Nick Mercer:

As always, we are going to give a spoiler warning for our friends listening in.

Nick Mercer:

We're going to be discussing this episode spoilers and all.

Nick Mercer:

If you haven't watched and you don't want to hear any spoilers, go ahead

Nick Mercer:

and go do your watching, come back.

Nick Mercer:

We can't wait to have you back here.

Allie Press:

Each episode of Tabula Rasa, B!tches, we'll dive into an episode of

Allie Press:

Buffy the Vampire Slayer and discuss the lessons that can be learned from

Allie Press:

our favorite Sunnydale warriors and the supernatural creatures they use their

Allie Press:

talents and friendship to overcome.

Allie Press:

Today, we'll be discussing season one, episode five, "Never

Allie Press:

Kill A Boy on the First Date."

Allie Press:

Wise.

Nick Mercer:

Allie, I have a question for you.

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah, yeah, don't or like, depending on the boy, if he sucks,

Nick Mercer:

go ahead kill him, like fair enough.

Nick Mercer:

My question to you is, where do I learn about this, this strange podcast title?

Allie Press:

This strange podcast title?

Allie Press:

Well, if you have that question in your mind, that means you didn't

Allie Press:

listen to our first episode!

Allie Press:

So naughty, naughty listener, you can go back over to episode one, where we talk

Allie Press:

about where we got our episode title or our show title, Tabula Rasa, B!tches.

Nick Mercer:

And

Nick Mercer:

- Allie Press: So go do that!

Nick Mercer:

Just to wait until you're clued in, friends.

Nick Mercer:

It's a good one.

Nick Mercer:

It's a good one.

Allie Press:

That's true.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

So for everyone who, who isn't initiated to that episode, you have,

Allie Press:

you have something to look forward to.

Nick Mercer:

We love a homework moment.

Nick Mercer:

We do.

Nick Mercer:

Allie, do you mind if I share with our friends this episode summary?

Allie Press:

I would be delighted if you would do so.

Nick Mercer:

And I would be delighted to do so, so we are perfectly aligned.

Nick Mercer:

This episode summary.

Nick Mercer:

Buffy is beginning to feel the lack of a boyfriend in her life, but when the

Nick Mercer:

quiet and mysterious Owen starts to pay her attention, things start to look up.

Nick Mercer:

Meanwhile, Giles and Buffy learn of The Master's plan to bring forth the

Nick Mercer:

Anointed One, a powerful vampire who is destined to help him fight the Slayer.

Nick Mercer:

Buffy is unconvinced about the prophecy and goes out on a date with

Nick Mercer:

Owen the following evening, rather than following up on a lead that the

Nick Mercer:

Anointed One may be about to rise.

Nick Mercer:

Giles follows up on the lead alone and finds himself in

Nick Mercer:

trouble with a group of vampires.

Nick Mercer:

After Willow and Xander interrupt Buffy's date with Owen, the three

Nick Mercer:

arrive to save Giles, not knowing that Owen has followed them.

Nick Mercer:

Buffy finds the strength to kill the presumed Anointed One after he hurts Owen.

Nick Mercer:

The following day Buffy decides that perhaps dating is pretty dangerous

Nick Mercer:

after all, she breaks things off with Owen, and sighs with relief that

Nick Mercer:

the prophecy didn't come to pass.

Nick Mercer:

Or did it?

Allie Press:

OoooOOOOooooo!

Nick Mercer:

OoOoo.

Allie Press:

Yeah, definitely some solid "don't make an

Allie Press:

assumption" in this episode.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, for sure.

Nick Mercer:

There so many, so many, so many quotes in this one, too.

Nick Mercer:

I'm really excited to chat about that with you, Allie.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

This is a good one.

Allie Press:

This is one that I ended up watching a lot as a kid because for some reason

Allie Press:

I kept thinking that this was the one where she has Angel over and the

Allie Press:

whole like shirtless tattoo thing.

Allie Press:

For some reason I kept thinking that that was this episode.

Allie Press:

So I kept putting it on and then like, oh, different date, different boy, whatever.

Allie Press:

So I've seen - very familiar with this episode.

Nick Mercer:

I wouldn't be mad about seeing Owen shirtless.

Nick Mercer:

I wouldn't be mad at all.

Allie Press:

No, no, he's cute.

Allie Press:

He's cute.

Allie Press:

I mean he's no David Boreanaz, but he's cute.

Nick Mercer:

Okay.

Nick Mercer:

Okay.

Nick Mercer:

Flag that for yourself.

Nick Mercer:

I have a question for you later on that we're going to come back to that

Nick Mercer:

gets at that point that you just said.

Allie Press:

Excellent.

Allie Press:

Excellent.

Nick Mercer:

What is your first note?

Allie Press:

So my first note is, yeah, glad the grunts got better.

Allie Press:

Uh, Buffy's fighting in the beginning

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: I noticed that too.

Allie Press:

Yeah, yeah.

Allie Press:

They are a lot

Allie Press:

- Allie Press: They're getting,

Allie Press:

They continue to improve.

Allie Press:

She clearly got some coaching.

Allie Press:

I get it.

Allie Press:

Hey, fight choreo, that is a specialty all on its own.

Allie Press:

Um, I think we all think we know how to make sounds until we're asked to do it.

Nick Mercer:

I don't know how to make sounds.

Allie Press:

Especially if you're not the one doing those moves.

Allie Press:

Cause, cause obviously she had a stunt double.

Allie Press:

So that means that she was going in ADR.

Allie Press:

Um, which is, I don't know what ADR stands for, but it's when the actors

Allie Press:

go into a studio afterwards and rerecord lines, either for clarity

Allie Press:

or they have to change things.

Allie Press:

Um, sometimes that's when they also change things for international release.

Allie Press:

All that kind of stuff.

Allie Press:

So that means that she was going into a booth later and trying to time

Allie Press:

imitates fight grunts , you know, trying

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Grunting

Allie Press:

So it's, it's hard, you know, I didn't-

Nick Mercer:

Wow.

Nick Mercer:

I thank you for that education, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

I didn't know about that.

Allie Press:

You're so welcome!

Nick Mercer:

Neat!

Nick Mercer:

My first note is a quote from Buffy where she says, "Giles, don't mention it.

Nick Mercer:

It was my pleasure to make the world a safer place for humanity."

Nick Mercer:

And that vibed with me particularly here, particularly today.

Nick Mercer:

I am going to speak in generalities here because I don't want to throw anybody

Nick Mercer:

under the bus who might be listening.

Nick Mercer:

But I had an experience today where I was sharing a win that I had with somebody.

Nick Mercer:

And that person didn't mean to, they did not mean to, and they

Nick Mercer:

explained it afterwards, but they immediately started asking me a

Nick Mercer:

million detailed questions about this win, and it was like just a little.

Nick Mercer:

And I interrupted them and I was like, okay, did you mean

Nick Mercer:

to say, "Good job, Nick?"

Nick Mercer:

And, and she said, "No, I didn't.

Nick Mercer:

I was going to get to that."

Nick Mercer:

And we had to get, it was, it was a productive discussion.

Nick Mercer:

It was a healthy, it was, it was good.

Nick Mercer:

It was good.

Nick Mercer:

But I then, after that conversation, I watched this episode and

Nick Mercer:

it, it resonated with me.

Nick Mercer:

It did.

Allie Press:

Yes, I used to have a lot of those moments, uh, after shows

Allie Press:

with my dad where he'd be like, "Oh, So-and-so was, did a great job," or

Allie Press:

"You should lift your chin up at this moment so that the light's in your face."

Allie Press:

And I'm like, did you mean good show?

Nick Mercer:

Right.

Nick Mercer:

We'll get to notes.

Allie Press:

Did you mean great job?

Nick Mercer:

Right.

Allie Press:

Person who's not my director?

Nick Mercer:

You know, and there's time for feedback, there is.

Nick Mercer:

I'll share information with you, but we're gonna celebrate first.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

How about you just give me flowers and shut the fuck up?

Nick Mercer:

Absolutely.

Nick Mercer:

Come on, Bruce.

Nick Mercer:

I love you, Bruce.

Nick Mercer:

I would die for you.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Chuckling So, so I love the moment when Giles picks up the ring that the vampire

Allie Press:

left behind, she goes, "Oh, great.

Allie Press:

I'll slay them, you'll fence their jewelry."

Allie Press:

[Nick laughs] And I just had this immediate, sketch, like SNL sketch

Allie Press:

spin-off in my head, like, still the same world, still the same seriousness

Allie Press:

that's going on, but then there's this goofy cartoon spinoff of actually

Allie Press:

Giles pawn stars style selling off.

Allie Press:

And he keeps getting questions about like where these came from and he has

Allie Press:

to either make stuff up or he just tells the truth, but they don't believe him.

Allie Press:

He's just this wacky librarian who has really good vintage stuff.

Allie Press:

I dunno.

Allie Press:

I just, my head went off and I was like, I would watch that show.

Nick Mercer:

I would also watch that show.

Nick Mercer:

I want to see how much money he gets for a ring from the Order of Aurelius.

Allie Press:

That'd be so interesting.

Allie Press:

Such a specific thing and people would be like, I don't know.

Allie Press:

He's like, trust me, it's a thing.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I, uh, continue to be impressed with

Nick Mercer:

how terrifying The Master is.

Nick Mercer:

Just his makeup, his costume, his lair has gotten creepier.

Nick Mercer:

And I really like in that scene, how we get kind of just, just a little taste,

Nick Mercer:

just like the glimpse of his strength when he lifts the dude by his neck.

Allie Press:

Mmm.

Allie Press:

Mhm.

Allie Press:

Mhm.

Allie Press:

That is, uh, an opposite reaction to that scene that I had because

Allie Press:

I have the note "LOL The Master?

Allie Press:

More like the SASS master."

Nick Mercer:

[Laughing] "Oh, that isn't in the prophecy at all," or whatever he says.

Allie Press:

I know, I know.

Allie Press:

I was just, okay, sarcasm much?

Allie Press:

I just, I loved that moment because again, you were saying he is, he is very scary.

Allie Press:

So then when he also is very flippant, I don't know something about it.

Allie Press:

I love it.

Allie Press:

And I think that's what makes him such a great villain

Allie Press:

because he has those moments.

Nick Mercer:

Get yourself a villain that's both scary and is a little bit of a bitch.

Allie Press:

Get you someone who can do both.

Nick Mercer:

Right.

Allie Press:

"Two points for the Slayer and the Watcher has yet to score."

Allie Press:

[Nick Laughing] That was pretty great.

Nick Mercer:

So many good Slayer vibes from this one.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I think that her green dress in the, in dress?

Nick Mercer:

What did I just say?

Nick Mercer:

Green dress and chunky ring she's wearing are amazing.

Allie Press:

Yes.

Allie Press:

I had a chunky ring very similar.

Allie Press:

Actually still have it.

Allie Press:

I was really glad when I found it recently because the nineties/seventies

Allie Press:

are very much in, so I - mhmm.

Allie Press:

They've been in for a while, but finally, like on a larger scale, people

Allie Press:

are catching on and I am all about it.

Allie Press:

So, very excited for that.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I want a picture of that ring.

Allie Press:

It's super cute.

Allie Press:

It has rhinestones in it.

Allie Press:

So I have, I wrote down, uh, the quote from Giles, "The mere fact

Allie Press:

that you would want to check out a book would be grounds for a holiday."

Allie Press:

Um, b'scuse me?

Allie Press:

Did she not just give you an I told you so on the research you were just doing?

Allie Press:

And he's like, oh no, I can't, I can't find it.

Allie Press:

And she's like, yeah, I saw that.

Allie Press:

It's right here.

Allie Press:

And she like, literally finds the page and totally schools him.

Allie Press:

And then he's like, pff, Buffy the fact that you would even pick

Allie Press:

up a book would be astonishing.

Allie Press:

Bitch!

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, Giles, I'm gonna need you to check yourself

Nick Mercer:

before you wreck yourself.

Allie Press:

Before I come into the TV opposite Ring-style and wreck YOURself.

Nick Mercer:

Right.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Don't, don't shade Buffy for this.

Nick Mercer:

And we actually do learn throughout the s - well, yeah, we learn throughout

Nick Mercer:

the series and it's already been established by, uh, science teacher

Nick Mercer:

who ended up dying that Buffy's smart.

Allie Press:

She's smart.

Allie Press:

It's not, it's not for lack of intelligence.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, no, not at all.

Nick Mercer:

She's just, you know, a superhero and has to whatever.

Allie Press:

Right!

Allie Press:

No, I had this whole tangent in my head cause she's, she says

Allie Press:

this later, but she says, you know, "Clark Kent had a day job."

Allie Press:

And it's like, well, actually, how good of an employee would Clark Kent have been?

Allie Press:

Like how...

Allie Press:

he worked at a newspaper.

Allie Press:

How was he getting those articles in on deadline?

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, and I bet, I bet he knew his priorities very clearly

Nick Mercer:

and did not convey to his employer what those priorities were, obviously.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, there's no way.

Nick Mercer:

He was missing deadlines left and right.

Allie Press:

Yeah, or Lois was writing them for him.

Nick Mercer:

Wouldn't that be fucking typical.

Nick Mercer:

Some dude just gets to publish them on the back of a woman's work.

Nick Mercer:

We do live in America.

Allie Press:

I honestly wouldn't have even been surprised if some of the

Allie Press:

originals were written like that.

Allie Press:

He's like, oh, thanks Lois, blah, blah, blah.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I have a quote from Giles in this scene that I thought was funny.

Nick Mercer:

Uh, also I think that it's hilarious that we learn that Buffy clearly has a brooding

Nick Mercer:

mysterious type with our friend Owen here.

Allie Press:

is so true.

Nick Mercer:

The quote from Giles that I really liked or the exchange,

Nick Mercer:

uh, he goes, "She's quite a good poet," referring to Emily Dickinson.

Nick Mercer:

"I mean, for-" and Buffy says, "A girl?"

Nick Mercer:

Giles goes, "An American."

Allie and Nick:

Chuckling.

Nick Mercer:

That's good, Giles.

Nick Mercer:

You saved your- you checked yourself there.

Nick Mercer:

That was a good idea.

Allie Press:

Yeah, I believe that, that that's what he meant.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, it a good save.

Allie Press:

But it is, yeah, that is great timing.

Allie Press:

We've all had that moment of like, you better watch the next

Allie Press:

words that come out of your mouth.

Nick Mercer:

You're on, choose them carefully.

Allie Press:

Thin ice.

Allie Press:

Um, can we talk about lying about interests?

Allie Press:

So, this whole time she's like, oh, Emily Dickens!

Allie Press:

And he's like Dickinson?

Allie Press:

[Nick laughs.] And she's like, uh, love her.

Allie Press:

She's great.

Allie Press:

She's my favorite.

Allie Press:

I read all - Me?

Allie Press:

I love books.

Allie Press:

And it's like, actually- And lots of people would make the same move.

Allie Press:

But, if anyone's listening out there who thinks that pretending you already know

Allie Press:

about a subject to impress a potential love interest is a good idea, no, no, no.

Allie Press:

Better idea, be really interested in it and share it with them.

Allie Press:

"Oh!

Allie Press:

You know, I've always meant to read Emily Dickinson.

Allie Press:

What if we went to a park and read some together?"

Allie Press:

Or what if I sit and listen to you talk about how much you love Emily Dickinson?

Allie Press:

I did do this as a move.

Allie Press:

Um, a now-friend, who at the time was a romantic interest, err,

Allie Press:

one-sided, uh, expressed one of his, uh, his favorite movies.

Allie Press:

And I was like, that's your favorite movie?

Allie Press:

Huh.

Allie Press:

I think you would like my favorite movie.

Allie Press:

What if we got together and watched them together?

Nick Mercer:

Off taping I need to know who this is, but you could name him

Nick Mercer:

later, but keep going, keep going.

Allie Press:

No, that's it.

Allie Press:

It was it, and we did.

Allie Press:

He came over and we watched both movies and they were not short movies.

Allie Press:

Uh...

Allie Press:

Uh [Nick laughs.]

Nick Mercer:

What movies did you watch?

Allie Press:

We watched Gran Torino and Dead Poet's Society.

Allie Press:

Which one do you think was my favorite?

Nick Mercer:

Oh, Dead Poet's Society.

Allie Press:

That shou-, that was, that was a gimme for you.

Nick Mercer:

Gran Torino.

Nick Mercer:

Do I know this person?

Allie Press:

I think so.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I obviously I know this person.

Nick Mercer:

Who, who do we know...

Nick Mercer:

okay, I have an-

Allie Press:

It's not, so it's not over my embarrassment.

Allie Press:

It's not wanting to embarrass him.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

No, that makes sense.

Nick Mercer:

That makes sense.

Nick Mercer:

It'll leave a little mystery for folks.

Nick Mercer:

That's good.

Allie Press:

Speaking of broody guys who like poetry.

Allie Press:

Anyway.

Nick Mercer:

Oh, okay.

Nick Mercer:

Now I know exactly who it is.

Nick Mercer:

That's funny.

Allie Press:

Allie snickering.

Allie Press:

Gave it away with that one, huh?

Nick Mercer:

This is just good dating advice though, right?

Allie Press:

It

Nick Mercer:

You don't have to fake.

Nick Mercer:

If you take interest in somebody, in something that, that you want to know

Nick Mercer:

about and they're already interested in, they're totally going to go for that.

Nick Mercer:

They, people love explaining things they're interested in.

Nick Mercer:

Ask me about World of Warcraft sometime, Allie.

Allie Press:

Oh, psh, abso - no.

Allie and Nick:

[Laughing.]

Nick Mercer:

Fine.

Nick Mercer:

I won't date you then.

Nick Mercer:

No, I'll still date you, please.

Allie Press:

No, cause it, cause it sort of leads into some of the best

Allie Press:

dating advice I ever, I ever read.

Allie Press:

Um, I read Modern Love by Aziz Ansari, which whether you think he's

Allie Press:

questionable or not, there's some really good information in the book.

Allie Press:

Um, a lot of people, they do all the same things on dates.

Allie Press:

They always go to the same restaurant or they always do that same activity

Allie Press:

of like coffee or drinks or whatever.

Allie Press:

And so you're wondering why you're never having success with dates.

Allie Press:

It's like, well, you're always doing the same thing.

Allie Press:

But what actually creates a connection is shared experiences.

Allie Press:

So finding something to do, so like monster truck rally, like even if neither

Allie Press:

of you end up being into it, you've now both been to a monster truck rally.

Allie Press:

It's like, it's a shared thing that you can now, you have A] more

Allie Press:

to talk about, and B] now it's a new thing that bonds you two.

Nick Mercer:

Neato.

Nick Mercer:

Huh.

Nick Mercer:

Dating advice with Allie.

Nick Mercer:

This should be a regular segment on our podcast..

Allie Press:

Yes, me and my, my wealth of knowledge.

Nick Mercer:

You just gave two really good pieces of advice there.

Nick Mercer:

In the next scene, I have an I, uh, well, I guess it's not an iconic quote

Nick Mercer:

from Cordelia, but it's an iconic quote that is because of Cordelia?

Allie Press:

I think I know what you're going to say.

Nick Mercer:

So, uh, Buffy has just gone to sit with Owen who's sitting

Nick Mercer:

alone and Cordelia tries to sweep in and she hits Buffy and Buffy goes, "Wow,

Nick Mercer:

Cordelia's hips are wider than I thought.

Allie and Nick:

[Laughing.]

Allie Press:

Not that we should be body shaming other women or

Allie Press:

putting other women down, but LOL.

Allie Press:

Um, I love, so they're talk, so Owen's talking about going to The Bronze or uh

Allie Press:

Cordelia is inviting Owen to The Bronze.

Allie Press:

And he says, "Who's gonna be there?"

Allie Press:

And she says, " I mean, I'm going to be there."

Allie Press:

And he says, "Who else?"

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

I wrote down that he's just so innocent and sweet and socially unaware.

Allie Press:

Uh-huh.

Allie Press:

Yup.

Allie Press:

But I just, I just love, I love that.

Allie Press:

Cause I feel like that's also a dating moment or an interest

Allie Press:

moment where we've all had?

Allie Press:

Where like you're trying to get your crush to come to something and he's like,

Allie Press:

cool, so who else, who all is going?

Allie Press:

And you're like, well, I guess that means I'm not enough....

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I'll just go fuck myself, thanks.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

I do love his initiative, though.

Allie Press:

So for all of his like, social shyness or it kind of seems like

Allie Press:

it's not that he can't be social he just chooses very sparsely to?

Allie Press:

But he does very quickly go well, Buffy, would you, would you want to go?

Allie Press:

How about at eight?

Allie Press:

And I was like, oh, all right, then.

Allie Press:

He does definitely give very clear signs of his interest because

Allie Press:

he, like, he makes the plan.

Nick Mercer:

He is bold and it's refreshing.

Nick Mercer:

We see that later on too, when, um, maybe we'll get to it.

Nick Mercer:

Maybe we won't.

Nick Mercer:

But when he's like, when she doesn't show up, sorry, I'm jumping ahead here.

Nick Mercer:

We can go back.

Nick Mercer:

But when she doesn't show up and he, he goes up to her the next

Nick Mercer:

day and he's like, where were you?

Nick Mercer:

Wanted to - th, that, yes, Owen.

Nick Mercer:

Love that.

Allie Press:

Yeah!

Allie Press:

Communication!

Nick Mercer:

Communication, that's good stuff.

Allie Press:

So for all, all of the right, for all of the red flags that he

Allie Press:

does eventually end up putting up, that is a very green, green flag for sure.

Nick Mercer:

I love that we are getting this glimpse into

Nick Mercer:

Buffy as an actual teenager.

Allie Press:

Yes.

Allie Press:

Yes.

Allie Press:

I love that.

Allie Press:

I have written down the quote, um, when Giles is talking about

Allie Press:

her, like going out and patrolling and she's like, "But cute guy!

Allie Press:

Teenager!

Allie Press:

Post-pubescent fantasies!"

Allie Press:

And again, clearly not dumb, using words like post pews, post-pubescent.

Nick Mercer:

Totally.

Allie Press:

She's smart.

Allie Press:

Give her some credit.

Nick Mercer:

And self-aware enough that this is a normal developmental milestone.

Nick Mercer:

Come on, let me do this.

Nick Mercer:

This a thing that teenagers- like that's, I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

impressive.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

And so they do, she does go after, after they are, uh, come up with

Allie Press:

nothing with the prophecy stuff.

Allie Press:

And, you know, I was a little bummed that she sees, she sees, uh, Owen and

Allie Press:

Cordelia dancing and it's like but...

Allie Press:

he's clearly not into it.

Allie Press:

Read some body language, hun.

Nick Mercer:

That's funny.

Nick Mercer:

I had the opposite reaction.

Allie Press:

Really?

Nick Mercer:

I, I, so when Buffy looked at, have you ever had that experience

Nick Mercer:

where you have a crush on this dude and then you see him talk to somebody else

Nick Mercer:

or like showing some sort of interest, just that sinking feeling in your chest.

Nick Mercer:

You're like, damn it.

Nick Mercer:

I thought...

Allie Press:

Of course.

Nick Mercer:

I wanted, I, and I felt like they did a really, well, okay.

Nick Mercer:

So you also recognize they did a good job with that.

Nick Mercer:

You're just like Buffy, that's not what he's doing!

Nick Mercer:

Come on!

Nick Mercer:

I going to say, I felt like they did a good job capturing that...

Allie Press:

Yeah, I think-

Allie Press:

Right.

Allie Press:

Cause I can see where she felt that and definitely like she was

Allie Press:

already feeling the pressure of being late and probably like already

Allie Press:

lots of bad self-talk on her part.

Allie Press:

And I do think that's probably very accurate to what a teenager would do.

Allie Press:

And we've been there.

Allie Press:

You know, I grew up with Anna Cooke as my best friend.

Allie Press:

Every guy I ever introduced to her had a crush on her.

Allie and Nick:

[Laughter.]

Nick Mercer:

Damn it, Anna.

Allie Press:

Cause Anna, you know, it's true.

Allie Press:

Don't even fuckin lie.

Nick Mercer:

Bitch, I hate you.

Nick Mercer:

You better be listening.

Nick Mercer:

You better be listening as it comes out.

Allie Press:

Uhh she because she's one of our friends who did actually watch Buffy.

Allie Press:

Cause there's going to be a lot of friends we're going to share this

Allie Press:

with who don't watch Buffy, but she's one of the ones who did, so...

Nick Mercer:

So, this is a challenge to Anna Cooke, specifically, as soon as you

Nick Mercer:

hear us say this, put Allie and I in a group text and text us the word penguin.

Nick Mercer:

So we'll know that.

Allie Press:

Ooh, I love that.

Allie Press:

I love

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Yeah.

Allie Press:

We'll see.

Allie Press:

We'll see.

Allie Press:

Um, okay, so in the next scene with the van, with the creepy dude going

Allie Press:

off about the prophecy or whatever.

Allie Press:

Um, he asks the question to the other people in the van, "Are you

Allie Press:

willing to stand with the righteous?"

Allie Press:

And I'm not in the van, but just to be clear, I am sure as hell not willing to

Allie Press:

stand with the righteous, you creepy fuck.

Allie Press:

On just about anything.

Allie Press:

In most situations, but oof, god, that would be terrifying

Allie Press:

to be on a bus with that guy.

Allie Press:

Yeah, it's just spewing all of that.

Allie Press:

And then he's not even just sitting down, he gets up?

Allie Press:

Please don't get up.

Allie Press:

Please don't walk towards me.

Allie Press:

Please don't address me.

Nick Mercer:

At first, I just have secondhand embarrassment and

Nick Mercer:

then I am afraid for my safety.

Allie Press:

Right, because he's not your standard crazy

Allie Press:

person babbling to themselves.

Allie Press:

Like, this is somebody who comes off threatening.

Allie Press:

He's clearly muscular and he's got that like crease in his forehead.

Allie Press:

Like he's angry about it.

Allie Press:

So it's like babbling craziness with intent.

Nick Mercer:

Yup.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Definitely lots of like, he looks like a vampire before

Allie Press:

he even gets turned into a vampire.

Nick Mercer:

Um, yep.

Nick Mercer:

Don't love him.

Nick Mercer:

I don't, I don't love any of that for him.

Allie Press:

Yeah, gross.

Allie Press:

Um, I have a quote maybe at, this might be skipping.

Allie Press:

You did not have to swerve that hard.

Allie and Nick:

[Laughing.]

Nick Mercer:

That's true.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah,

Allie Press:

kind of looked like an overcompensation.

Allie Press:

I know I wasn't there.

Allie Press:

I know I wasn't driving, but I don't know.

Allie Press:

I feel like that crash was a little unnecessary.

Nick Mercer:

You're supposed to be a good driver, too, sir.

Allie Press:

Right?

Allie Press:

Um, oh, I love the watches moment with-

Nick Mercer:

I wrote that down, too!

Allie Press:

Was so cute!

Allie Press:

Going like, cause Owen gives her the like really old timey, old

Allie Press:

fashioned pocket watch, which is like, aw, super cute moment.

Nick Mercer:

Very classy.

Nick Mercer:

And I would not expect anything less for him to have a classy pocket watch.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Definitely.

Allie Press:

But then, I just love that cinematic moment of then panning

Allie Press:

over to Xander's cartoon watch.

Allie Press:

Fantastic.

Nick Mercer:

Little Tweety Bird.

Nick Mercer:

I To be fair, personally, I like Xander's watch more.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Agreed.

Nick Mercer:

But it, perfectly emblematic of-

Allie Press:

as if, you

Nick Mercer:

and -insecurity that Xander feels.

Allie Press:

Girls don't have big enough pockets - she probably

Allie Press:

didn't even have pockets at all.

Allie Press:

It's the nineties.

Allie Press:

She probably didn't have any pockets.

Allie Press:

Like she has somewhere to put a pocket watch?

Nick Mercer:

True, good point.

Allie Press:

Just saying.

Um, I love the, Buffy:

:

does normal teenager thing.

Giles:

"She is the strangest girl."

Nick Mercer:

[Light laughter.]

Nick Mercer:

Um, this is my first question for Allie moment the episode.

Nick Mercer:

We saw in the scene with the watches that Xander had decked out the

Nick Mercer:

inside of his locker with stuff.

Allie Press:

Mhmmm.

Nick Mercer:

How did you decorate the inside of your locker?

Allie Press:

Well, that depends on middle school or high school.

Allie Press:

Because high school, we were allowed to carry our backpacks

Allie Press:

with us so I did not use my locker.

Allie Press:

Um, past freshman year, I didn't even bother to like

Allie Press:

go find where my locker was.

Nick Mercer:

I didn't even know where mine was either.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Uh, there's probably still a, an umbrella in there or something.

Allie Press:

Uh, but middle school, oh my god.

Allie Press:

I took a decorating my locker very seriously.

Allie Press:

Always went to Target and I would get the magnets and the mirror and the picture

Allie Press:

frame holders and the little magnetic thing, cup holder thing that you'd put

Allie Press:

like extra hair ties or whatever, and like the extra shelf for inside the locker.

Allie Press:

And every year, I would make a collage, in like Open Office or whatever.

Allie Press:

I wouldn't, it's not like I was cutting and pasting things.

Allie Press:

No, no, no.

Allie Press:

I was full digital.

Allie Press:

I'd make a collage of all the celebrities I had current crushes on.

Allie Press:

And I would have all of those in my locker.

Allie Press:

So yeah, Angel was probably almost definitely in my locker.

Nick Mercer:

I bet.

Nick Mercer:

Do you think you have any pictures of the inside of one of your lockers?

Allie Press:

No, I may still have one of the collages somewhere?

Allie Press:

Cause I keep that shit.

Allie Press:

It is, it is really funny to see some of the stuff.

Allie Press:

Um, Tom welling, Kent from Smallville.

Allie Press:

I, I mean...

Nick Mercer:

Cheaper By The Dozen, as well.

Allie Press:

Oh yeah, Cheaper By The Dozen.

Allie Press:

Well, and he was in Lucifer and he may or may not be coming

Allie Press:

back to the role of Clark Kent.

Allie Press:

There's rumors.

Allie Press:

And he is still fiiiiiine.

Allie Press:

Yes.

Nick Mercer:

So sexy.

Nick Mercer:

Um, if you have that collage, I need you to find it.

Nick Mercer:

If you have it.

Nick Mercer:

I need to see it.

Allie Press:

I will look for it.

Nick Mercer:

Glorious.

Nick Mercer:

Thank you.

Allie Press:

In, in two months when I'm actually back home.

Allie Press:

Uh, what about you?

Allie Press:

What was your locker situation?

Nick Mercer:

So I, well, similar to you in high school, did not even

Nick Mercer:

know where it was past freshman year.

Nick Mercer:

I don't think that I ever...

Nick Mercer:

I know that I wanted to deck it out, but felt like that was too feminine

Nick Mercer:

and everybody else already thought I was gay and I was definitely not gay.

Nick Mercer:

Absolutely.

Nick Mercer:

I'm not gay.

Allie Press:

I was, I was about to ask that.

Allie Press:

Did you think that, was it part of trying to hide?

Nick Mercer:

Oh, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Total toxic masculinity internalized homophobia thing, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Allie Press:

Okay, so fantasy world.

Allie Press:

Middle-school Nick.

Allie Press:

Who would you have had in your locker?

Allie Press:

Or what would you have had in your locker?

Nick Mercer:

It's so funny you mentioned Tom willing.

Nick Mercer:

If I were to make a collage for middle-school Nick, uh, Tom Welling,

Nick Mercer:

yeah, as Superman in Smallville.

Nick Mercer:

Oh my god.

Nick Mercer:

So fine.

Nick Mercer:

Who else?

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, David Boreanaz would have been There.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I watched Buffy in middle school.

Nick Mercer:

Who else would have been in there?

Nick Mercer:

Um, oh, uh, Channing Tatum.

Nick Mercer:

Still a crush.

Allie Press:

Hell yeah.

Allie Press:

Step Up era.

Allie Press:

Fuck yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah.

Allie Press:

I mean, now I only love him even more after all

Allie Press:

the comedy stuff he's done.

Allie Press:

But we were already all over him just from Step Up.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, get yourself a man who's sexy and funny.

Allie Press:

And dances.

Nick Mercer:

I did decorate people's lockers for their birthdays.

Nick Mercer:

That was always a thing.

Allie Press:

That was so much fun.

Nick Mercer:

That was always really sweet.

Nick Mercer:

Oh, middle-school.

Allie Press:

So, I actually have a question written

Allie Press:

down here for you, Nicholas.

Allie Press:

Um, do you have a worst date story?

Allie Press:

Or a funny date story?

Nick Mercer:

Oh my god, I do have a worst date story.

Nick Mercer:

Oh god, one of my - okay.

Nick Mercer:

It was in college, one of my friends- So Allie, you and

Nick Mercer:

I went to Towson University.

Nick Mercer:

Um, one of my friends attended American University, which is far from Towson.

Allie Press:

That's where my big sisters went!

Nick Mercer:

And bless them.

Nick Mercer:

Bless them both.

Nick Mercer:

All.

Nick Mercer:

How many big sisters?

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah, 2, 2, 2.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

So, my friend decided to set me up with somebody that she knew.

Nick Mercer:

Looking back, I'm pretty sure she, I think she only decided to set us up

Nick Mercer:

because we were two gay people and like, naturally it's going to be a good.

Nick Mercer:

Whatever.

Nick Mercer:

So I traveled all the way to American University.

Nick Mercer:

I think we ended up taking like public transportation.

Allie Press:

Which is far.

Allie Press:

That is from Baltimore to DC and with public transportation, that is rough.

Allie Press:

They do not make it easy to go between those cities.

Nick Mercer:

No, they don't.

Nick Mercer:

And then, once I got to American University, I still, we still

Nick Mercer:

had some public transportation to do to get, but once you're in DC

Nick Mercer:

it's a little easier, whatever.

Nick Mercer:

I'm saying, it was, it was an evening, it was a night commitment.

Nick Mercer:

Dinner was so bad.

Nick Mercer:

It was so awkward.

Nick Mercer:

Nothing in common whatsoever.

Nick Mercer:

I think he asked me what my favorite magazine was?

Nick Mercer:

Which is a fair question as somebody who's interested, but I think I said Nickelodeon

Nick Mercer:

Magazine cause was the only, that was it.

Nick Mercer:

I was a, I was a 20-year-old saying, like just..

Nick Mercer:

And then I had to, oh yeah, that was uh, oh yeah, it wasn't great, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

Wasn't great.

Nick Mercer:

What about you?

Nick Mercer:

Any, any funny, bad...

Allie Press:

Funny, bad dates stories...

Allie Press:

Uh, ha ha ha, uh, it's funny, like, do I go with a sarcastically funny

Allie Press:

reference to my emotionally abusive ex?

Allie Press:

Or do I go with something that was like actually funny?

Allie Press:

Um...

Allie Press:

no, I don't really ha- cause I

Nick Mercer:

I won't name him, but fuck that dude.

Allie Press:

Hahahaaa...Already did.

Allie and Nick:

[They darkly laugh.]

Nick Mercer:

True.

Allie Press:

Regrets.

Allie Press:

Um, no, anyway, no, see, the thing is I didn't date a lot.

Allie Press:

That's the thing, like I didn't get asked out much.

Allie Press:

I mean, I had a date with my, my middle school boyfriend.

Allie Press:

Also a Nick.

Allie Press:

I definitely have a thing in my life for Nicks.

Allie Press:

And we went to-

Nick Mercer:

Why won't you date me, then?

Allie Press:

I tried so hard.

Allie Press:

Don't even act like I didn't.

Allie Press:

That is offensive for you to say.

Allie Press:

[Nick laughing.] Slap you across the face.

Allie Press:

Um, so my middle school boyfriend and I's first date was Prom Night.

Allie Press:

Not the night of, but like the movie with Britt-Brittany Snow.

Allie Press:

Because my thinking was, we'll go see a scary movie, I'll get really scared

Allie Press:

and like jump over and cuddling and maybe kissing will ensue or whatever.

Allie Press:

It didn't even end up being scary.

Allie Press:

It was just sad.

Allie Press:

Cause it opens up girl who was attacked by a stalker.

Allie Press:

She's currently in therapy, still having lots of PTSD.

Allie Press:

She's barely recovering enough to go to prom.

Allie Press:

And this is supposed to be this big, happy, joyous thing after this guy.

Allie Press:

I think he even like killed her parents or something and now

Allie Press:

she's living with her aunt uncle.

Allie Press:

Like, serious trauma already starting off from minute one.

Allie Press:

She's probably never gonna be ok.

Allie Press:

Or, you know, she has a long journey to get to okay.

Allie Press:

So she has prom night and then, obviously, horror movie, things go

Allie Press:

awful, best friends die, all this stuff.

Allie Press:

She was already barely okay and now she's just never, like,

Allie Press:

lock her in a padded cell.

Allie Press:

She's never going to be okay.

Allie Press:

Like, it just ended up being sad.

Nick Mercer:

[Disgusted sound.]

Allie Press:

No touching, or like maybe I even tried to hold hands or

Allie Press:

something, but we didn't, or I was too scared to cause it was middle school.

Allie Press:

It was just a very unsuccessful date.

Allie Press:

Not, not even not funny, but just kind of, yeah, just kind of lame.

Nick Mercer:

That's okay.

Nick Mercer:

Things have gotten better for both of us with our lifelong partners.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

I mean, I can tell, I can tell amazing date stories with my current partner.

Nick Mercer:

That'll be episode 5.5.

Nick Mercer:

It'll be great.

Nick Mercer:

Um, in the next scene where Buffy is getting ready for her date.

Nick Mercer:

I wonder if we wrote down the same quote here.

Allie Press:

Oh, well, not a quote, but, um, how insensitive

Allie Press:

can they be having Xander there?

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

That's not great, is it?

Allie Press:

She's profusely talking about this, this date that she's going

Allie Press:

on with a different guy, obviously.

Allie Press:

Picking out outfit, all this stuff, and like, okay, we all know, let's

Allie Press:

not pretend like we don't all know that Xander has a thing for Buffy.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, it's not their kindest move ever.

Allie Press:

Rude or maybe he's like trying to show that he's okay?

Allie Press:

I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

I, I also remember watching this as younger, and I

Nick Mercer:

think the fact that he was so in love with her had just escaped me.

Nick Mercer:

I thought that he had gotten over it.

Nick Mercer:

I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

The vibes that I get from him now is obviously he's like jealous

Nick Mercer:

and would like to be going on the date with Buffy instead.

Nick Mercer:

But the vibes that I got back then was that he was, it was like an

Nick Mercer:

overproductive brother kind of.

Allie Press:

Okay.

Allie Press:

It could be both.

Allie Press:

It could be a bit of both.

Allie Press:

Um, or like over-protective because you're in love with her?

Allie Press:

Or if like, like maybe he's acknowledged that he's not going to have her, but he's

Allie Press:

not ready for someone else to have her.

Allie Press:

Which is fair.

Allie Press:

We've all been there.

Allie Press:

Like, okay, I get that, I get that I - Well, it's fair

Allie Press:

for the situation to exist.

Nick Mercer:

Yes.

Allie Press:

It's not fair to like, put that on them,

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, yeah,

Allie Press:

been there

Nick Mercer:

I see what you're

Allie Press:

I get that we broke up, but that doesn't mean I want

Allie Press:

to see you with someone else.

Nick Mercer:

Yup.

Nick Mercer:

Totally.

Allie Press:

I'm not saying you can't be with somebody else, but

Allie Press:

doesn't mean I have to like it.

Nick Mercer:

Right.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

That seems fair to me.

Allie Press:

So what's the quote?

Nick Mercer:

The quote that I love is, uh, so Giles has come to be

Nick Mercer:

like, oh, it's the end of the world.

Nick Mercer:

And then Buffy goes, "If the apocalypse comes, beep me."

Allie Press:

Chuckles.

Allie Press:

That is a good one.

Allie Press:

That's another, in a previous episode, I talked about how the DVDs would

Allie Press:

play a preview, a selected quote.

Allie Press:

When you pressed play on an episode, it would play the quote

Allie Press:

and then start the episode.

Allie Press:

That was the quote for this episode.

Nick Mercer:

So good.

Allie Press:

"If the apocalypse comes, beep me."

Allie Press:

I, I wrote down, "A cranky Slayer is a careless Slayer."

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

[Laughs.] True.

Nick Mercer:

Um, there's a quote from Owen that I don't love when they're in The Bronze together.

Allie Press:

I bet I know what it is.

Nick Mercer:

I wonder.

Nick Mercer:

He says, "I find most girls pretty frivolous.

Nick Mercer:

You know, there's a lot more important-"

Allie Press:

"-important things in life than dating."

Nick Mercer:

It, like...

Allie Press:

Says the guy pursuing a girl!

Nick Mercer:

Well, and this whole part at the beginning, "I find

Nick Mercer:

most girls pretty frivolous."

Nick Mercer:

If you find, if you are categorizing most of any group as one

Nick Mercer:

thing, then I think that, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

And the problem is probably with you.

Nick Mercer:

"Most girls pretty frivolous."

Nick Mercer:

Why don't, do you just need to...

Nick Mercer:

be more social?

Nick Mercer:

Like, do you-

Allie Press:

Well, I also, I can see it definitely from his like...

Allie Press:

He reads Emily Dickinson and he has to have his Emily with him.

Allie Press:

And so he probably has like what today would be considered

Allie Press:

very like hipster perspectives.

Allie Press:

Like, oh, I bet all you read is Vogue and Covergirl or whatever.

Allie Press:

And he's like, oh, but you don't, you don't read like

Allie Press:

real pain, blah, blah, blah.

Allie Press:

And a lot, I feel like he can, he talks about like how morbid she is and stuff.

Allie Press:

And I bet he has a very stable home life, good grades...

Nick Mercer:

Mmmm.

Allie Press:

Has decent friends and is like desperately trying to-

Nick Mercer:

He needs to be edgy.

Allie Press:

-he has, yeah!

Allie Press:

He's just this edgelord who's like talking about girls being frivolous

Allie Press:

and it's like, you know what...

Allie Press:

Let people enjoy things.

Nick Mercer:

People enjoy things.

Nick Mercer:

And actually Teen Vogue has pretty provocative, nuanced...

Allie Press:

True.

Allie Press:

Teen Vogue was not a good example because they do lots-

Nick Mercer:

Well, no, it's something that, that somebody

Nick Mercer:

like Owen would be like, oh, Vogue is so frivolous or whatever.

Nick Mercer:

But then it's like when somebody says something-

Allie Press:

No, they had interviews with like Emma Watson and stuff like that.

Allie Press:

Um, so yeah, Teen Vogue is actually like, you know, and also, I just

Allie Press:

think it's so obnoxious to be dumping on something that you do.

Allie Press:

It's like you're, you were, you're clearly dating.

Nick Mercer:

Right.

Allie Press:

Oh, they're all so obsessed with dating.

Allie Press:

Uh, oh, uh, we do have a message, uh, this episode features music by

Allie Press:

Velvet Chain, the song "Strong."

Nick Mercer:

I didn't know that!

Nick Mercer:

You looked it up!

Allie Press:

I did!

Allie Press:

Cause, um, cause I recognized the song off of Buffy the Album.

Allie Press:

So I wanted to make sure, I was pretty sure, but I definitely didn't

Allie Press:

remember the band name is Velvet Chain.

Allie Press:

So, in that, when they're at The Bronze on their date, uh, that is

Allie Press:

who was playing on, on the stage.

Allie Press:

That is Velvet Chain.

Nick Mercer:

How about that?

Nick Mercer:

It's good music.

Allie Press:

"Hello, salty goodness."

Nick Mercer:

Ew.

Nick Mercer:

Also, gross.

Allie Press:

[Laugh.] Shut up.

Allie and Nick:

[More laughing.]

Allie Press:

That's Cor, Cordelia reacting to Angel, which I think

Allie Press:

is a perfectly valid reaction.

Nick Mercer:

Salty?

Nick Mercer:

Why is that the adjective?

Allie Press:

I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

Uuugh, um, I do like, I do like that quote,

Nick Mercer:

there's another quote from her.

Nick Mercer:

"Pick up the phone, call 9-1-1.

Nick Mercer:

That boy is going to need some serious oxygen after I'm done with him."

Allie and Nick:

[Snickering.]

Allie Press:

[Sigh.] Gurla, yeah, that's straight, that confidence.

Nick Mercer:

Gurlaaaa

Allie Press:

I do, I do love that.

Allie Press:

Like immediate blow to her confidence when he walks straight to Buffy.

Nick Mercer:

Why is this happening to me?

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, that's good.

Allie Press:

Yes.

Allie Press:

I also love the immediate shift in Angel's physicality when Owen comes back from

Allie Press:

getting the drink or the food or whatever.

Allie Press:

You can just tell he immediately goes into like posturing mode.

Nick Mercer:

Oh, yeah, he's threatened.

Nick Mercer:

So this is, this is where I, um, this is a question that I think I know

Nick Mercer:

your answer to now, but based on what we know about Angel and Owen so far,

Nick Mercer:

I think I might say Owen's cuter.

Allie Press:

Wha-hut??

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

I think, yeah, just looking at the two of them together.

Nick Mercer:

I think, I think Owen's the cutie there.

Allie Press:

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion.

Nick Mercer:

[Laughing.] Thanks.

Nick Mercer:

I appreciate it.

Allie Press:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Nick Mercer:

I, I did look up the actor who plays Owen.

Nick Mercer:

He's still really cute.

Allie Press:

I believe that.

Allie Press:

I believe that.

Allie Press:

No, he's, I mean, I will not disagree that he is a cutie and he is definitely

Allie Press:

somebody, like, I would have had eyes for in high school, as we said previously.

Allie Press:

Definitely my type.

Allie Press:

Um, but no, them compared side by side?

Allie Press:

No, not a chance.

Allie Press:

Angel all the way.

Nick Mercer:

Hmm.

Nick Mercer:

All right.

Nick Mercer:

We'll see if our listeners agree with you or me.

Allie Press:

Um, and then we very quickly get to issues with personality

Allie Press:

with Owen when he says, "Actually, that sounds kind of cool" - going to, uh,

Allie Press:

going to a morgue and it's like Ooh!

Allie Press:

Red flag.

Nick Mercer:

That's weird.

Nick Mercer:

Red flag.

Allie Press:

Red flag.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, that's you, yeah, that's not normal

Allie Press:

Maybe going to a cemetery - cool.

Allie Press:

Morgue?

Allie Press:

No.

Nick Mercer:

Going into a morgue, yeah, I don't need to see that.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, I'm okay.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

We love a first kiss moment.

Allie Press:

Yes, and Angel's face.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, hahahaha, when Buffy kisses Owen.

Allie Press:

Yep.

Nick Mercer:

Ahhh, that's so funny.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Why is Willow so good at lying?

Nick Mercer:

Um, yeah, so they, Xander and Willow here when they're interrupting

Nick Mercer:

their date, it's big, um, big lame parents crashing the hangout energy and, and

Nick Mercer:

yeah, Willow is, she's on right away.

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah.

Allie Press:

And a good story, too.

Allie Press:

Not one of those it was flying monkeys and you're like, okay,

Allie Press:

well you're ly, you're lying.

Allie Press:

No, she's like, she's on top of it.

Allie Press:

And she's supposed to be the goody-goody.

Allie Press:

So...

Allie Press:

I don't know.

Nick Mercer:

Hmm.

Nick Mercer:

Interesting skill for her to have.

Allie Press:

Interesting skill.

Allie Press:

There's, there's some things we don't know about.

Allie Press:

I don't know.

Allie Press:

There's, I have something written about like the prophecy being vague and...

Allie Press:

Oh!

Allie Press:

I think Giles is talking about like, yeah, I don't know, I, I guess it

Allie Press:

could be pointing to this thing when the, um, I think it's when he's

Allie Press:

looking at the news article where the five people died in the bus crash?

Allie Press:

And he saying like, this could be the five people.

Allie Press:

And he's like, I know it's not rising from the ashes.

Allie Press:

It's like, well, prophecies are notoriously flowery, flowery language

Allie Press:

and vague so that they can come true.

Allie Press:

So like, yeah, of course, of course it's vague and weird and can be

Allie Press:

interpreted a million different ways.

Allie Press:

It's intentional.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, they're tricky.

Nick Mercer:

Um, so now we're at the point where, uh, Buffy, Xander, Willow are in

Nick Mercer:

the morgue trying to save Giles.

Nick Mercer:

We learn that Owen has followed them.

Nick Mercer:

Goddammit, Owen, whatever.

Nick Mercer:

When Buffy, I love Buffy's continued development here,

Nick Mercer:

really shining as a leader.

Nick Mercer:

Telling Giles to like, hang on, she's managed, she's says to

Nick Mercer:

Xander and Willow watch him.

Nick Mercer:

Just the delegation there.

Nick Mercer:

It's nice to see.

Nick Mercer:

We love to see it.

Allie Press:

Yep.

Allie Press:

Definitely.

Allie Press:

Definitely a natural, natural born leader.

Allie Press:

Um, although I do have close the - when they're looking through

Allie Press:

all of the, um, what are those called, where the bodies are stored.

Allie Press:

All the doors and stuff.

Allie Press:

Close the doors!

Allie Press:

Were you raised in a barn?

Allie Press:

Cause they're just like leaving all of them open.

Allie Press:

It's like everyone, someone's going to know that someone was in here

Allie Press:

rifling through all of these drawers.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, you monsters.

Nick Mercer:

Come on.

Nick Mercer:

Do you leave the cupboards open at home?

Nick Mercer:

I hope not.

Allie Press:

God, I hope not.

Allie Press:

Hayden does.

Allie Press:

I have to go behind him and shut them.

Allie Press:

Um, I have "Pork and beans?"

Allie Press:

written down.

Allie Press:

So this is when the dude wakes up, he's a vampire, and he start, he come, he

Allie Press:

breaks through the observation room window, and he's like, "Pork and beans,

Allie Press:

pork and beans, I smell pork and beans."

Allie Press:

And I looked that up cause I was like, is this some kind of like folky song?

Allie Press:

Something?

Allie Press:

So I, I put the quote into Google and the first thing to

Allie Press:

come up is a Buffy chatroom.

Allie Press:

Uh, and I took a screenshot.

Allie Press:

It's okay.

Allie Press:

This time will be edited out in post that's what

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: Don't do it

Allie Press:

It'll be fun.

Allie Press:

So.

Allie Press:

Uh, okay.

Allie Press:

So the quote is, "'He is risen in me, pork and beans, pork and beans.

Allie Press:

I can smell you.

Allie Press:

You're the chaff, unblessed.

Allie Press:

I'll suck the blood from your hearts.

Allie Press:

He says I may.' So vampire Borba is simply equating" - I guess

Allie Press:

Borba's the name of the dude?

Allie Press:

Um, so "he's simply equating the teens fleeing from him to food here.

Allie Press:

And it's specifically this kind of food because canned pork and beans is probably

Allie Press:

something he's familiar with, whether as a transient or from prison or the army.

Allie Press:

And he's equating them to something cheap since they're insignificant to

Allie Press:

him now in his new exalted state."

Nick Mercer:

Wow.

Allie Press:

So that was someone's interpretation, but

Allie Press:

I think that's pretty spot on.

Nick Mercer:

That's spot on!

Allie Press:

Yeah!

Nick Mercer:

My goodness.

Allie Press:

It's not something I would've pulled out, but yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Good for you doing that research, Allie.

Nick Mercer:

Wow.

Allie Press:

Heck yeah, Internet.

Nick Mercer:

I wrote down- so this was before the dude has woken up.

Nick Mercer:

They're barricading the door or whatever.

Nick Mercer:

And Xander, I, so Xander puts, they, moving various things in

Nick Mercer:

front of the door, Xander places a cushion from a couch and then Willow

Nick Mercer:

puts a lampshade on the chair.

Nick Mercer:

Good job.

Nick Mercer:

Thanks for that.

Nick Mercer:

That's great.

Allie Press:

I had that exact same thought of, you know, that's going to do a lot.

Allie Press:

I'm so glad you took those extra seconds.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I'm not sorry for asking this question.

Allie Press:

Mhm?

Nick Mercer:

The crazy vampire...

Nick Mercer:

is he kinda hot?

Allie Press:

Mmmmm...

Nick Mercer:

Come on.

Nick Mercer:

Not even a little bit?

Allie Press:

No...

Allie Press:

no...

Nick Mercer:

Whatever.

Allie Press:

Uh, wi-with that much religious drivel being

Allie Press:

spewed out of his mouth...

Allie Press:

I just, no, no.

Allie Press:

I mean maybe if I saw him smile?

Allie Press:

Un-unknit that brow?

Allie Press:

But-

Nick Mercer:

If you go to church with him I'm sure he'll smile.

Allie and Nick:

Chuckling.

Nick Mercer:

Fine.

Nick Mercer:

I'll just thirst over him alone.

Allie Press:

Yeah, I mean, more for you.

Allie Press:

Uh, okay.

Allie Press:

So Buffy's talking to Owen the next day.

Allie Press:

And she's saying, you know, the, the usual, it's not me, it's

Allie Press:

you - or it's not - snort - it's not

Allie Press:

- Allie and Nick: [Laughter.]

Allie Press:

Freudian slip.

Allie Press:

Uh, saying that it's not you, it's me.

Allie Press:

And it's like, no, no, no, no.

Allie Press:

It's definitely you.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

We found out that you're crazy and you're accident prone, or you

Allie Press:

have a, have a adrenaline junky side and that's, that is dangerous and not ok.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, you seek out danger.

Nick Mercer:

That's not a good match for a Slayerrr.

Allie Press:

No, no, no, no.

Allie Press:

And then I had, I have this headcanon now that Owen doesn't make it to senior year.

Allie Press:

Like, he is definitely someone who ends, I bet this track record

Allie Press:

of seeking out danger continues.

Allie Press:

And I bet he ends up getting killed by another vampire.

Nick Mercer:

He dies at some point.

Nick Mercer:

Right?

Allie Press:

Yeah!

Allie Press:

I was just like, I, I had that thought and I was like, no, I'm certain he

Allie Press:

ends up being a Sunnydale casualty.

Allie Press:

But like the casual in casualty because he's probably - not to victim

Allie Press:

blame, but putting himself in very dangerous, vulnerable situations and,

Allie Press:

you know, reaps the consequences.

Nick Mercer:

Totally.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

I feel like victim blaming is a little different when you're in a

Nick Mercer:

town full of vampire, then we can kind of be like, you should not do that.

Allie Press:

There's precautions you can take and like, you can be safe.

Allie Press:

And I know that sometimes it's like, especially in Sunnydale, there's

Allie Press:

no amount of safe you can be at some point, but I feel like Owen

Allie Press:

probably doesn't try very hard.

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Oh Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Dude like walked through a cemetery at night or something, which is

Nick Mercer:

a sketchy thing to do anyways.

Nick Mercer:

Don't do that anyways, but still.

Allie Press:

Yeah, he does not live to fight in the battle

Allie Press:

of Sunnydale High School.

Allie Press:

I don't think he does.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I noted a very nineties item.

Nick Mercer:

Willow is drinking one of those- do you remember those little juices

Nick Mercer:

that would have the twist off things?

Nick Mercer:

And then it would, um, you would know it if I showed it to you,

Nick Mercer:

it was, it was so casual just for those plastic jui-, whatever.

Nick Mercer:

It'll be on social media, friends.

Nick Mercer:

Look at.

Nick Mercer:

But, um.

Nick Mercer:

I, it took me back to my time enjoying those juices as well.

Nick Mercer:

And I'm happy that Willow was.

Nick Mercer:

I know she was enjoying it because they're delicious.

Allie Press:

That's lovely.

Allie Press:

I have another, yet another spinoff idea with Giles.

Allie Press:

Uh, but did you ever hear of the story Pen, uh, the show Pennyworth?

Nick Mercer:

Nnno.

Allie Press:

So it's about, it's basically a prequel to Batman about, uh, Alfred

Allie Press:

Pennyworth, um, the Butler Alfred.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Because it is in, in some of the comics it does mention his like

Allie Press:

special, English special forces, forces training, and that kind of thing.

Allie Press:

And we see briefly towards the end when, um, and this, I think this is

Allie Press:

a significant moment between Buffy and Giles, cause it's kind of his,

Allie Press:

kind of his first like parental talk.

Allie Press:

Like consoling her after, and again, and it's consoling after a very

Allie Press:

normal thing of like, and a very mature thing of her choosing not to

Allie Press:

stay with Owen because she probably thought she blew it and then didn't.

Allie Press:

She could have just been like, cool, guess I can still date him.

Allie Press:

And no, she, she stepped back and took the very mature move.

Allie Press:

And he mentions, I was called, my parents told me that I was destined

Allie Press:

to be a Watcher at the age of nine.

Allie Press:

Nine?

Nick Mercer:

Mmm.

Allie Press:

Jeezle-Petes, like, I think I still thought I was going to

Allie Press:

be a Spice Girl at nine, you know?

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

So, so thinking about that, what other stuff does that mean for

Allie Press:

Giles's life growing up before he gets to be a 40-something

Allie Press:

librarian in Sunnydale, California?

Allie Press:

You know, from age nine to whatever, what does Watcher training look like?

Allie Press:

You know, did he grow up with other members of the

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: always wondered that.

Allie Press:

You know, I think that would be such a great prequel to explore.

Allie Press:

And I think there would be so much there.

Allie Press:

And we do see in later seasons, when we see more of the Watcher's

Allie Press:

Council, there are female Watchers.

Allie Press:

So there could be absolutely more diversity and there's

Allie Press:

Watchers from all over the globe.

Allie Press:

And I wonder like what else they're doing throughout the year?

Allie Press:

Cause you know, there's only one Slayer.

Allie Press:

So what work do they have?

Allie Press:

There's one Slayer and one Watcher who's with that Slayer.

Allie Press:

So what are the rest of them doing this whole other time?

Nick Mercer:

I've always wondered that too!

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, that would be so interesting to explore.

Allie Press:

Well, she calls them out on it later, which is bad ass.

Allie Press:

I fucking love it.

Allie Press:

Cause they deserve it.

Allie Press:

But it's interesting.

Nick Mercer:

That is really interesting.

Nick Mercer:

What an interesting thought experiment.

Nick Mercer:

I don't want Joss Whedon to do it, cause fuck that dude, somebody

Nick Mercer:

else, somebody else do it.

Allie Press:

Um, some female writer.

Nick Mercer:

Oh yeah.

Allie Press:

Uh, maybe a person of color.

Allie Press:

I think they could do a great job with it.

Allie Press:

And it could be maybe an HBO Max show?

Allie Press:

You know, cause they're doing

Allie Press:

- Nick Mercer: could star Allie Press.

Allie Press:

Oh yeah.

Allie Press:

I could do that.

Nick Mercer:

Um, I wrote down similar kudos for Giles in this scene, especially

Nick Mercer:

as kind of scoldy as he's been during the episode, this is just a really

Nick Mercer:

nice, like he's not just some sort of trainer or some sort of teacher.

Nick Mercer:

He really is a parental figure.

Nick Mercer:

And that's really nice.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

And he does have a good moment of, you know, admitting

Allie Press:

his, his lack of knowledge.

Allie Press:

He says, you know, I don't have a manual for how to actually do this.

Allie Press:

So I love, I love that admittance because I think, I think it's important to take

Allie Press:

responsibility and, accountability.

Allie Press:

All good things.

Nick Mercer:

And then at the end, I just think they did such a good job

Nick Mercer:

with the Anointed One bait and switch.

Nick Mercer:

So it wasn't actually the crazy dude.

Nick Mercer:

It was, it was the kid in the bus.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

And this whole Anointed One, like the existence of the Anointed

Allie Press:

One stuff ends up having a very interesting arc between season one

Allie Press:

and season two, which we'll see later.

Nick Mercer:

Mhm.

Allie Press:

Yeah, so th, that's a very interesting journey and I

Allie Press:

do, I do love a bait and switch.

Allie Press:

Um, and I do love what that says, maybe even in the greater, like, metaphor

Allie Press:

of Buffy of like the things that end up being a big deal to you aren't

Allie Press:

always what you think are gonna be.

Nick Mercer:

Yeah, hadn't thought about it that way.

Allie Press:

I just, in this moment, thought of that.

Nick Mercer:

Allie, you brilliant, beautiful bitch.

Nick Mercer:

How bout that alliteration, huh?

Allie Press:

I love me some alliteration.

Nick Mercer:

Almost as profound as your point.

Nick Mercer:

Um, so, uh, the only other fun fact I have about this episode as I was

Nick Mercer:

doing research, I didn't know this.

Nick Mercer:

Owen, in the original script, his name was Chambers?

Nick Mercer:

And I am glad they changed it to Owen.

Nick Mercer:

I don't know why they changed it.

Allie Press:

That was his first name?

Nick Mercer:

That was his, yeah, Owen was initially named Chambers as he

Nick Mercer:

was identified in the - Owen Thurman!

Nick Mercer:

Yeah.

Nick Mercer:

Thurman Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick Mercer:

They talk about that in the cafeteria.

Allie Press:

There you go.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

Ooh.

Allie Press:

I mean, I, I can sort of get where it's supposed to be this sort of like

Allie Press:

eclectic, you know, to go with his whole like moody personality, but yeah.

Allie Press:

Owen is much better.

Nick Mercer:

Um, anyways, what are your favorite quotes, Allie?

Allie Press:

I think it- Yeah think we, we definitely mentioned,

Allie Press:

yeah, we mentioned all of mine.

Allie Press:

We hit all of mine.

Nick Mercer:

Well, a moral of the story that I saw, and I wonder if you saw

Nick Mercer:

any others, Allie, just this idea that you're going to have to make sacrifices

Nick Mercer:

one day and it's not going to be fair.

Nick Mercer:

sucks.

Nick Mercer:

It's not fair.

Nick Mercer:

And that's life.

Allie Press:

Yeah, absolutely.

Nick Mercer:

You know, we, I don't think I've ever had to make any sacrifices

Nick Mercer:

or make any choices, such that if I don't do it somebody's going to die.

Nick Mercer:

But, but, that's the great part about Buffy is that we can still

Nick Mercer:

relate to pieces of it, even if it's not, you know, a direct one-to-one.

Nick Mercer:

Because there have been times where it's just not fair you have

Nick Mercer:

to do something and that you still to do it and that's just life.

Nick Mercer:

And that sucks.

Allie Press:

Yeah.

Allie Press:

You can't have it all.

Allie Press:

I definitely like, you know, I feel like a lot of kids end up going through

Allie Press:

this, when you're a little kid and you don't have homework and shit,

Allie Press:

like you can do 1,000,001 activities.

Allie Press:

And then you get older and eventually you have to like

Allie Press:

drop some of those activities.

Allie Press:

And that ends up sucking.

Allie Press:

And I miss, I miss gymnastics.

Allie Press:

That's one of them.

Allie Press:

That's like the one that got away.

Nick Mercer:

Hmm.

Nick Mercer:

You're learning how to crack a whip.

Nick Mercer:

You can always revisit gymnastics if you want to.

Allie Press:

Das.

Allie Press:

True.

Allie Press:

Also, you know, pole dancing.

Allie Press:

So that's one of my, my current hobbies.

Allie Press:

One day when we're allowed to go places and exercise without a mask

Allie Press:

and touch things without washing our hands 10 times, then I'll be

Allie Press:

able to go to outside activities instead of just working out at home.

Nick Mercer:

How about that?

Nick Mercer:

What a day it will be.

Allie Press:

What a day, what a day.

Allie Press:

Well, uh, Nicholas, shall we, shall we wrap this mutha up?

Nick Mercer:

Let's wrap this mutha up!

Allie Press:

All right.

Allie Press:

I think that about does it for this episode.

Allie Press:

Thank you so much for joining us and we hope you'll join us again for

Allie Press:

our next episode where we'll discuss season one, episode six, "The Pack."

Nick Mercer:

And if you are just too excited to wait until our

Nick Mercer:

next episode to chat, send us an email at tabularasabpod@gmail.com.

Nick Mercer:

And you can also say hello to us on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at

Nick Mercer:

@tabularasabpod, spelled the same way.

Nick Mercer:

Allie!

Allie Press:

Yes!

Nick Mercer:

Where can people find you on social media?

Allie Press:

Well, Nick, they can find me at @Daughterpick on Twitter and Instagram.

Allie Press:

That's D-A-U G-H-T E-R P-I-C-K.

Allie Press:

And they can find me on TikTok as @futureblackcat.

Allie Press:

And oh!

Allie Press:

If you would like to support me in my journey as a budding artist, hungry actor,

Allie Press:

you know, you can toss me a couple bucks over at BuyMeACoffee.com/AlliePress.

Allie Press:

You can join one of the memberships and read more about what my journey

Allie Press:

has been like as a young actor.

Nick Mercer:

And folks, let me just tell you, Allie's Not-So-Weekly Updates are

Nick Mercer:

amazing, engaging, love them every time.

Nick Mercer:

Totally check them out.

Nick Mercer:

And if you didn't catch any of that, don't worry.

Nick Mercer:

All of our social media handles are in the description.

Nick Mercer:

Until next time, Allie, I love you very much.

Allie Press:

I love you.

Nick Mercer:

Make some proud choices.

Allie Press:

Yes, folks, make proud choices.

Allie Press:

Mwah!

Outro Music:

[Outro Music slowly fades in.]

Nick Mercer:

Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

Nick Mercer:

is hosted by Allie Press and Nick Mercer with music by InflatonCult,

Nick Mercer:

artwork by Charlotte Fleming Design, and consultation by Evo Terra.

About the Podcast

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Tabula Rasa, B!tches!: A Buffy Rewatch Show

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Nick Mercer

Nick Mercer

Nick Mercer (he/him) works as a fundraiser for a nonprofit organization. He was introduced to Buffy by his illustrious co-host when they became fast friends over the summers in elementary school. Nick credits Buffy for his early passion for social justice.

When not cheering on our favorite Sunnydale warriors in their fights against the supernatural, Nick enjoys cooking and engaging in political advocacy in his local community. Nick's favorite quote from Buffy is, "You have to take care of each other. You have to be strong. Dawn, the hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Be brave."

Nick lives in South Carolina with his perfect puggle, Joseph.
Profile picture for Allie Press

Allie Press

Allie Press (she/her) is a Maryland-born actor with aspirations for all kinds of film. Her goal is to play Felicia Hardy for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Allie earned her BFA in Acting from Towson University in 2016.

Allie began watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer during its original airing at just three years old. She's taken many of Buffy's lessons to heart - perhaps none more so than Buffy's reflection that "fortune favors the brave." When not rewatching Buffy or exchanging notes with her dear co-host, you can find Allie with one of her many other hats - maybe as a costume designer, nanny, stage manager, or podcast production assistant with Simpler Media.

Allie currently lives in Atlanta with her partner and puppy. Connect with Allie on Instagram at @daughterpick or TikTok at @futureblackcat, and support her work as an artist at buymeacoffee.com/alliepress.